Diesel injection pump question

spider · Post by **spider** » 17 Sep 2010, 12:35

As above it will just help.

Basically, when you have finished, slacken the nuts on the pipes to the injectors (the injector end of the high pressure pipes) , just a turn or two will do.

Wrap a bit of rag around them and when you have pumped the primer bulb, crank the engine for a few seconds then stop and go and tighten the unions back up.

All that doing that is for is to help it pass more fuel out (well, air) quicker.

You will get air in with the correct procedure btw, any time you open any fuel pipe (feeding pipe) you will introduce air. Fuel system relies on being sealed from the air (the pipework) to function properly.

A tiny air bubble would cause a misfire as that injector would only be injecting air effectively for that cycle.

But all bleeding it to the injectors does is save time, you could say the same about the primer bulb (this is to just help fill the filter and pipework really) , it would eventually start without but you would likely flatten at least two batteries in the process, if that makes sense.

the_weaver · Post by **the_weaver** » 18 Sep 2010, 02:06

Today, I loosened the unions, moved the injection pump, then re-tightened the unions. The line in the dirt, that I thought was the position of the pump before the garage moved it, was of no use, because I couldn't line the pump up with it. So in the end, I just moved the pump to the centre of the slot.

Only two of the pump mounting nuts were tightened up properly by the garage. One easy one on the front, and the one on the back. The other two nuts were hardly tightened at all. Maybe the garage didn't have a half-moon spanner.

The unions took a bit of undoing. There's no way that the garage undid those recently. They were covered in rust with no recent spanner marks in the rust. I think the garage turned the pump all the way to the end of the slot without undoing the unions. I hope this doesn't mean my pipes are going to break at some time. I did drive the car, but probably for less than fifty miles. Mainly test driving it, and taking it back to the garage.

I've tightened the unions a bit (to keep dirt out overnight) but I'm wondering how tight I should do them. The torque is supposed to be 20 Nm, which is about the same as the injection pump mounting nuts. It seems a lot for an union. Should I tighten them up fairly tight with an open-ended spanner or should I just nip them up now, and tighten more later if they leak? I've got some Crow's Foot spanner ends with a 3/8" square drive hole for use with a ratchet. I could use this to torque them up. I'm wondering if it's a good idea to use a torque wrench, or is it better to do them by hand.

Paul

Post by **KennyW** » 18 Sep 2010, 12:09

Hi Paul,

The union have to be tight enough to prevent air entering the system.So if you can tighten them to the correct torque pefect but as everyone knows overtightening can damage the treads and thus break the seal.

I don't if it is wise but the old plumber/heating engineer trick with a tiny amount of washing upliquid on the joint if it draw air the liquid will bubble.

Kenny

the_weaver · Post by **the_weaver** » 18 Sep 2010, 22:02

Kenny

It's difficult to get the torque wrench in there, that's the only problem. I think I'll just do them up by hand/feel and check if they leak once the car's running.

Paul

Post by **KennyW** » 19 Sep 2010, 10:17

Hi Paul,

I tightened mine with a normal spanner and i have had no problems.

Kenny

the_weaver · Post by **the_weaver** » 22 Sep 2010, 01:34

There's somebody in the Peugeot forums with similar problems with the cambelt running close to the edge, causing belt side wear. See this link:-

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 171#239171

I described my similar problems and wheeler posted this:-

"You may have to take the injetion pump bracket off & check the dowels & for corrosion buildup. I have seen the same thing happen to the pump bracket that happens to xantia rear brake calipers & this can push it off centre."

I don't think removing the pump bracket is covered in the Haynes Manual. Can I do it without disconnecting the banjo unions because I haven't got new sealing washers?

Paul

the_weaver · Post by **the_weaver** » 22 Sep 2010, 02:45

Is it possible to lift the injection pump out a bit and remove the pump bracket for the purpose of cleaning rust build up, without disconnecting everything? I realise I will have to disconnect the four pipes to the fuel injectors, and remove the pump sprocket. I was wondering whether I could get away without disconnecting the fuel in/out banjo unions and the accelerator and fast idle cables. I was thinking of lifting the pump about a foot and supporting it on a piece of wood with tie wraps or something.

Paul

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 22 Sep 2010, 09:17

Paul, compared to detensioning the cambelt (as you will have to do) and removing the main injection pipes, those other bits are a walk in the park ?

or am I missing something... ?

the_weaver · Post by **the_weaver** » 22 Sep 2010, 14:51

John

It's all to do with work that I've done before, and work that I've never done before. I've refitted the cambelt about five times in the last few weeks, so that's no problem. I've disconnected/reconnected the four injector pipes on the pump in the last few days, so I know I can do that job ok. The thing that's putting me off disconnecting the banjo fuel unions, is the fact that it says in the Haynes manual that you have to use new washers (2 on each union). I haven't got any new ones, so I'll be re-using the old ones. Disconnecting the accelerator and fast idle cables is probably easy, but I try to avoid that sort of thing, in case I have so set something up afterwards, such as the idle speed, or maybe I will put the max revs out of adjustment. There's usually a side effect that happens whenever you work on something. I've had quite a few experiences when I started what should be a simple job, and ended up breaking off a stud, and then the job becomes a major one.

I was just going to disconnect the four injector pipes at the pump. I don't have to disconnect them at the injectors as well, do I?

Paul

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 22 Sep 2010, 15:09

ok Paul..

its sometimes easier to get those 4 pipes off the car if you're doing anything around that area.. it's a 1 min job, when you have done it a few times.. leave throttle cable on, and you can get pump away far enough, I would remove the fast idle cable once the pump is in your hands (and you can get to the cable easier)

I have to admit, I have rarely if ever changed those thick copper washers on the unions, and never had a leak there, dont worry about them, change them in the future if you need to..

so you have a few wires, the pipes, the fuel pipes, the 4 pump nuts, and a couple of cables.. no bother

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 22 Sep 2010, 15:15

There'd be more chance of the copper washers resealing if they're annealed first. Simply heat them to cherry red then allow to cool slowly.

the_weaver · Post by **the_weaver** » 22 Sep 2010, 16:30

I've just realised that I can't pull the pump sprocket off. The M7 bolts I've got are too short to make a puller. They won't be long enough to use with a bar on the nut. I wonder if I could use M6 bolts with nuts on the other side of the sprocket.

I could remove the pump and bracket complete, I suppose. I still won't be able to get the sprocket off and the pump out though. I can see that the pump is mounted on raised bits of the engine block. The pump bracket is held well away from the rust on the engine block. Only rust on the raised mountings would push the bracket out. I can't see any locating dowels for the pump bracket. Does the XUD have them? Are they concealed or supposed to be visible? I 've heard about a problem on the Peugeot 406 HDi where the dowels are too short and disappear into the pump bracket causing a loss of location and movement of the pump. Are there any similar problems on the XUD?

Paul

Post by **KennyW** » 24 Sep 2010, 18:21

Hi Paul,

I have some spare M7 bolts give me a PM and I'll post them to you.

Kenny

the_weaver · Post by **the_weaver** » 25 Sep 2010, 01:54

Kenny

Thanks for the offer of the bolts. I've actually got some now. I ordered them from ebay and they came today. I should have looked there first, instead of looking for nut and bolt suppliers. I've made a puller bar from an old spanner, so I'll give that a try tomorrow. I hope it's strong enough.

I've bought some pliers for those removable hose clips. I don't know how to use it though. Is it "one way round for removal" and "the other way round for re-fitting"?

Paul

spider · Post by **spider** » 25 Sep 2010, 14:45

the_weaver wrote:
I've bought some pliers for those removable hose clips. I don't know how to use it though. Is it "one way round for removal" and "the other way round for re-fitting"?

Paul

Yes, usually

They do sometimes have a habit of not wanting to close properly afterwards though. Ensure they are properly 'round' if needed before attempting to close them.

You can sometimes use side cutters with extreme care instead of the correct tool, although the tool is 100 times better.