Towing

Homer · Post by **Homer** » 08 Jun 2003, 16:30

The towing weights are on the VIN plate. It takes a bit of deciphering though.
There should be 4 numbers.

XXXX kg -(Max vehicle weight) 
XXXX kg -(Max train weight i.e. vehicle and trailer) 
1. XXXX kg -(Max front axle load) 
2. XXXX kg -(Max rear axle load)

You need to deduct the max vehicle weight from the max train wieght.

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » 08 Jun 2003, 19:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

Code: Select all

XXXX kg -(Max vehicle weight) 
XXXX kg -(Max train weight i.e. vehicle and trailer) 
1. XXXX kg -(Max front axle load) 
2. XXXX kg -(Max rear axle load)

You need to deduct the max vehicle weight from the max train wieght.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I disagree with this reasoning. Using this method, you end up with a grossly overloaded trailer. OK! I'm not saying that you won't pull it, but there's only one way to arrive at a 'safe' figure. That's to take the kerb weight of the tow vehicle and tow 85% (or maybe a bit more!) of that weight. Using my own vehicle as an example: Kerb weight: 1429Kgs
85% of KW: 1214Kgs
The spec. Gross Train Weight is given as 3440Kgs - according to this method of calculating it would mean that the trailer could weigh up to 1430Kgs. Giving a weight ratio of just over 100%

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 09 Jun 2003, 00:50

John, you are using Xantia 2.1td estate figures there which are correct for your car, the Citroen owners manual states the maximum braked trailer weight for a 2.1td estate (in my owners manual) at 1500kg, thats the maximum legal weight it can tow, it is not the maximum towing weight for it as advised by the caravan club.
The weight used is the vehicle unladen weight of 1436kg, not vehicle and driver, so with a driver in it the ratio would not be over 100% not that it makes much difference, the 85% advisory figure should be observed never the less.
Dave

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » 09 Jun 2003, 23:48

Hi Dave - I agree! the handbook does say that the 2.1 Estate can pull 1500Kgs and it gives the kerb weight of the car as 1429Kgs. But I still believe that the stated trailer weight is too high, if not illegal.

FFX-DM · Post by **FFX-DM** » 27 Jun 2003, 17:47

Hi, I've just got back to this post, for some reason it took me a terribly LOOONNNNGGGG time to get back here, must be that van on the back! [:)]
I have purchased the ideal van for towing, it weighs just 350Kg unladen and is miniscule! (10' x 5.8"). Matching fun fur cow print covers for the seats just like the one's I (sacriligiously) have in my car next!!
I am going to cover it with Andyspares stickers (about 2 should do it) and drive round Reading until Jon changes my profile picture back again! (bwar har har - evil laugh) [}:)]
Hmmm, towing? Not so sure about this. The jury is still out. Caravanning gets the big thumbs up for comfort in the cow field and for speedy get away (compared to having to take your tent down that is!). I am not sure about all the courtesy and friendly waves I keep getting from other caravan towers - it is very unnnerving after viewing them as THE ENEMY! [:I]
Interesting article in 'ractical Pikey' magazine about towing some super trendy mini van around Spain with a (get this!!) C3! They did not enjoy the hills much, apparently - suprise!!!

Homer · Post by **Homer** » 27 Jun 2003, 18:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JohnD

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

Code: Select all

XXXX kg -(Max vehicle weight) 
XXXX kg -(Max train weight i.e. vehicle and trailer) 
1. XXXX kg -(Max front axle load) 
2. XXXX kg -(Max rear axle load)

You need to deduct the max vehicle weight from the max train wieght.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I disagree with this reasoning. Using this method, you end up with a grossly overloaded trailer. OK! I'm not saying that you won't pull it, but there's only one way to arrive at a 'safe' figure.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'm not talking about safe. The figures on the VIN plate are the legal limits.
I personally don't think caravans are safe at all. Under current regulations any idiot can hook one up behind their car and waltz off with no training. Even if you have one that's too heavy for the car the chances of being stopped by the police are minimal.
I saw one the other day on the A64, on it's side with Landrover Discovery (towing it) in the same situation, blocking both lanes of the dual carriageway. 4 miles of traffic stuck behind it. Just glad I was going the other way.

Post by **Jon** » 27 Jun 2003, 20:45

oh, dear, all this caravan talk is just too much for me.

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » 27 Jun 2003, 21:11

Oh dear! Homer sounds as though he's one of the 'anti-caravanning brigade'. Under current regulations any idiot CAN'T hitch up and drive. Since 1998 any driver taking out a licence to drive a car and wanting to pull a trailer weighing more than 750Kgs needs to take another test, putting himself in B+E category. All my previous comments in this topic regarding weights to put behind our vehicles were written from the point of view of safe towing.
Whether Homer likes caravans or not - "Caravans are back in fashion" - so says the Advanced Driving Magazine. The article goes on to say that the Caravan Club have signed up 50000 new members in the past year, and more importantly, is an industry worth an estimated £1.2 billion to the Country.

FFX-DM · Post by **FFX-DM** » 27 Jun 2003, 21:39

Oh dear, Jon knows far too much about this subject to be good for him! [:0] Fancy owning up to knowing specific caravan brands, that's such a giveaway!
As I have been trundling around at normally aspirated speeds, I have noticed one helluva lot of people towing caravans, trailers, etc doing some SILLY speeds on the roads. I have to concur that the combo of 4x4s and caravans brings two of the least favourite road users into one package. If the 4x4 is a BMW or worse, a Volvo, that's three most hated!!
The traffic accident that caused a tailback from J24 of the M25 right round until 5 miles South of the Dartford tunnel, which slowed me and my van down interminably on Sunday was not caused by a caravan, I notice, so us idiots have not got the monopoly on stupidity yet!
On a lighter note (geddit?!!) when I unhitch the abomination, my 1.9D feels just like the nippiest sportscar ever!! Yeeeee harrrrrr! [:p]

mipster · Post by **mipster** » 27 Jun 2003, 21:39

I saw one the other day on the A64, on it's side with Landrover Discovery (towing it) in the same situation, blocking both lanes of the dual carriageway. 4 miles of traffic stuck behind it. Just glad I was going the other way.
I used to work just off the A64 between York and Scarborough, at the base of Whitwell Hill. Every year there would be a number of caravans flipping over, the police took notice of this.
What they did was, for a few years running, over May day bank holiday weekend they filtered EVERY caravan off the road and weighed them.
It was great fun watching a family trying to put 200KG or whatever of caravan contents into their car to lighten the weight of the caravan.[:D][:D]

Homer · Post by **Homer** » 27 Jun 2003, 22:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JohnD

Oh dear! Homer sounds as though he's one of the 'anti-caravanning brigade'.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes, I'll admit it. I'm also anti 4x4 and very anti 4x4 with caravan.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Under current regulations any idiot CAN'T hitch up and drive. Since 1998 any driver taking out a licence to drive a car and wanting to pull a trailer weighing more than 750Kgs needs to take another test, putting himself in B+E category.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This is news to me and I think it will be news to a great number of other people. Many of them merrily towing their tin snails up and down the country lanes of Britain.
I can't find anything about it in the highway code (http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/00.shtml)
It is mentioned on the DVLA website (http://www.dvla.gov.uk/drivers/dl_towing_trailers.htm) but the regulations only apply to drivers who have passed their test since 1997 which still leaves a majority of idiots free to do as they please.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">All drivers who passed a car test before 1 January 1997 retain their existing entitlement to tow trailers until their licence expires. This means they are generally entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes MAM. They also have entitlement to drive a minibus with a trailer over 750kgs MAM.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thank you, I have learned something today and you have cheered me up. Perhaps this will make caravanning a little less popular in future.[:D]
I wonder how many times the police actually check people have the right category on their license? Not something you can check with a camera at the side of the road so I imagine very few.

Homer · Post by **Homer** » 27 Jun 2003, 22:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mipster

I used to work just off the A64 between York and Scarborough, at the base of Whitwell Hill. Every year there would be a number of caravans flipping over, the police took notice of this.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This was on the Malton bypass.

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 28 Jun 2003, 03:58

I'm not keen on caravans either, when I was hgv driving they sometimes scared the crap out of me as the bow wave hit them, first shoving them over onto the shoulder then swinging back and nearly taking your mirrors off.
I allways tried to give them as much room as possible by staying to the right of the lane, and even encroach into the third lane if it was clear, it was particularly worrying because they're all off on holiday and invariably have a car full of kids.
The last thing I would want to do is tow a caravan, if the wind gets up you can soon be in too deep, there is a lot of area to catch it.
I was once in a volvo (not driving) towing a single axle box trailer in a cross wind on an exposed stretch of the A38 near here, on about half a dozen occasions it was on one wheel, with the other one about a foot in the air, I didn't like that very much.
Dave