Xantia-Crankshaft pulley bolt 1 Newcastle Falcon 0

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 08 Jul 2010, 12:45

ahh yes I remeber now...

NewcastleFalcon · Post by **NewcastleFalcon** » 11 Jul 2010, 19:47

I am back in the game just a couple of the inlet manifold bolts to come off now.

Yes I have made another schoolboy error. While the allen key I selected after routing around in the bottom of the toolbox appeared to fit and indeed did remove the easiest access bolt I suspect it was an allen key of old imperial dimensions.

After discovering a newer shinier set I assume to be of metric dimensions, I have now succeded with most of the bolts. The hacksaw is not required as yet but thanks for the offers of access to inlet manifolds if the remaining bolts aren't so co-operative.

Allen keys aren't stamped with the size on them are they? My inadequate method of trial and error and selecting one that fits came unstuck this time, and together with a disorganised set of tools I have created a fair amount of unnecessary hassle for myself.

Is the proper size for the allen key 5mm for the inlet manifold bolts?

Thanks

Neil

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 11 Jul 2010, 20:21

The allen head bolts are 6mm HEAD, not 5!

Good quality keys are marked with their sizes...

Glad to hear your winning!

Paul

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 12 Jul 2010, 11:00

Post by **CitroJim** » 12 Jul 2010, 12:06

MikeT wrote:

Spam removed Mike...

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 12 Jul 2010, 12:50

Good man! I knew it wouldn't last long.

NewcastleFalcon · Post by **NewcastleFalcon** » 12 Jul 2010, 19:48

Inlet manifold is off. That 13mm bolt in the centre is in an awkward position. I didnt have a deep 13mm socket and it seemed there just wasn't a position where you could get the bulk of the ratchet, or t-bar in to undo it. Got a 13mm ring spanner on it but getting sufficient leverage to undo it was proving difficult. In the end I used a hex 13mm socket, with a 13mm square ended drain plug key in the end, and a 17mm spanner acting on the main body of the drain plug key, and hit the ring end of the spanner with a hammer. Not recommended but it worked.

May have spotted an error in Haynes! 4B 15.6 says:

"loosen but do not remove the central hexagon manifold securing bolt-the manifold is slotted"

Unless I have missed something, The manifold on my 1.9TD doesnt appear to be slotted, and has a hole where the central securing bolt goes through.

Almost ready to undo the cylinder head bolts. I have removed one 13mm through bolt to the cylinder head from the engine mounting. Is that all that is required on that side to get the head off? Camshaft and camshaft spocket all completely off.

Looking at the exhaust manifold nuts/studs I feel that I would be really lucky if none sheared off, so I would like to remove the head with the exhaust manifold untouched. I have disconnected the exhaust downpipe.
Which are the 2 bits on the turbo which need disconnecting to free the head whith the turbo and exhaust manifolds still attatched. The oil feed pipe union is one probably. Apologies if this has already been answered I will look up the thread after this post. If possible I would like to do the disconnections at the turbo rather than crawling under the car.

thanks Neil

Post by **CitroJim** » 12 Jul 2010, 20:21

Well done Neil, getting that manifold off is a tricky old job and you showed great ingenuity in getting at the centre bolt

Haynes are wrong for late manifolds but earlier ones were slotted. There were two reasons, firstly that bolt is a devil to get back in with a manifold dangling and secondly it acts as a sort of dowel when there is a slot. less perhaps a dowel but more of a location and convenient peg to rest the manifold on. Still, it's only light alloy so not that weighty...

You'll be pleasantly surprised with the exhaust manifold studs. They rarely put up a fight. If you remove the stud complete you can leave the manifold and turbo in place and that makes sense - the head with manifold and turbo attached is seriously heavy. If a stud stays in, use the old "double nut" trick to get it out - that's two nuts on the stud, one tightened against the other and the lower one used to undo the stud.

It's coming along a treat. keep up the good work

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 12 Jul 2010, 20:29

Exhaust manifold nuts WONT sheer, as they are just that a stud... with a nut and washer on the end, and a LONG spacer!

The lower (Looking at the TOP of the turbo) Left Stud spacer does not come away, untill the others are loosend off and the turbo slid away - you then need to remove the STUDS them selfs...

REMEMBER: to remove the oil drain the feed pipes, then also remove the tiny 8mm head screw holding the feed pipe to the bracket attached to the block...

Paul

NewcastleFalcon · Post by **NewcastleFalcon** » 13 Jul 2010, 10:26

As Jim said the exhaust manifold nuts and studs didn't put up a fight at all. The studs were in suprisingly new looking condition-I expected them to be dry, rusty and rock solid in the head.

The head is just about off. All the bolts are off and it is loosened at the end away from the timing belts, pulleys etc. Had to leave it for now maybe needs just a bit of wiggling to free it at the other end.

I think I have disconnected all that is required but I havent removed the tensioner, or the top engine mount in its entirity.

Neil

Post by **CitroJim** » 13 Jul 2010, 12:31

Excellent stuff Neil

NewcastleFalcon wrote: but I havent removed the tensioner, or the top engine mount in its entirity.

You will need to remove the mount complete as it dowels into the head and prevents it being lifted.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 13 Jul 2010, 12:42

NO you wont need to remove the top mount!!

If you use a LARGER 16mm bolt, you can PULL the Dowl out of the head side through the mount! BE WARNED it can be VERY stiff, I invented a pully type of method useing a socket!

This then means and was PSA's intention - and theres NO need to remove the mount!!

You WILL also need to remove the engine lifting hook of the end of the head this has a "Dimple" in it that holds the head in place! Its one 13mm nut.

Paul

NewcastleFalcon · Post by **NewcastleFalcon** » 13 Jul 2010, 16:36

The bits I have missed out from Haynes are:-

2B 13.15 Remove the timing belt tensioner and the right hand engine mounting bracket

2B 13.16 Remove the timing belt idler roller

2B 13.18 Remove the bolt securing the engine front plate to the fuel injection pump mounting bracket

2B 13.19 Remove the nut and bolt securing the engine front plate and the and the alternator mounting bracket to the fuel injection pump mounting bracket, then remove the engine front plate.

I think I'll take the camera along as well as having a bit more fiddle. I may be able to see better what your method is Paul.

At some stage do I need to make that "special tool" Haynes mentions to hold the tensioner in the engine mounting bracket. Is it necessary when dismantling the engine mount-any hideous consequences of not using it?

Thanks

Neil

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 13 Jul 2010, 19:09

Rubbish!

You will find the belt tensioner (Timing belt) has two bolts holding it ! Theres the swivel nut thats 13mm and theres a second one right under the Cam shaft pully.. also 13mm.. this one you DO need to remove.. but you can hold the tensioner in the "Undone" position by dooing up the nut on the swivel point... this will hold it in the undone position while you get the head off...

Absolutly NO idea what the hell Haynes is on about with the Fuel pump bracket!! It has nothing to do with the head... The thing with Haynes is that they use Older Parts from earlyer publications, henceI found that the Stud holding the head which is present from around 1994 onwards was not in earlyer Xantia books... It appeared when they switched to "Bolted" Cam belt covers... A clue for you, is when you removed the cam belt covers, the pin dowl holding the head is behind the 10mm nut that was just down to the left from the top engine mount... remove the centre threaded bolt with 13mm spanner, then behind that is were the 16mm or so bolt needs to go to remove the metal dowl that goes into the head..

Im waffleing here now.. annoying for me, I can see everything thats awkward to get at and also not neccessarily neede to be removed.

Paul

the_weaver · Post by **the_weaver** » 13 Jul 2010, 20:44

Neil

See this post for pictures (with measurements) of a tool made by Andy(spider) for holding the tensioner plunger in:-

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... sc&start=0

I might be making one soon. I've had the idea of using modelling clay to make an impression of the mount which could then act as a template for drilling the holes in the tool.

The links to old-guy's site are also very useful.

Paul