Xantia-Crankshaft pulley bolt 1 Newcastle Falcon 0

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Post by wright »

i would just change the whole engine, you say the belt broke so there is probably buts of valve stuck into a piston, or worse you swap the head over and then you find a con rod is bent, you say the other engine is a good one, put it in it'll be less work in the long run
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Post by CitroJim »

wright wrote:i would just change the whole engine
Indeed :) If you have a known good unit available, it is just as, if not, easier than sorting out the broken one.

Having said that, it's rare for an XUD to munch pistons, conrods or even valves when the belt lets go. What does invariably get broken is the camshaft and often with it, the camshaft bearing caps. This effectively writes off the head as the bearing caps are matched to the head when they are line-bored during manufacture and cannot be replaced.
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Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Tried the method using the starter this morning but the bolt still refuses to budge. I am beginning to eye up where to make the precision cuts with the hacksaw to remove the bottom cambelt cover leaving the crankshaft pulley where it is for now.

I can see the advantages of the engine swap, but I am thinking along the lines of getting mobile again asap, and the process of taking out 2 engines, and installing one looks like it would take ages.

Jim-from what you say it would appear to be a waste of time to think about using the camshaft and the bearing caps from my "spares" xantia and taking a chance that there is no significant valve or piston damage.
Using the full cylinder head fom the spares xantia would be more work but a better option.


thanks Neil
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Post by citroenxm »

You WILL very likely have valve damage, however, you can test this with the head on by pressing down on each valve... if it push's down and comes back up smoothly, then the valve stem will be fine!

With a replacement cam and caps, firstly, ensure the caps DO fit, as these are macined as a Set from factory, you may have to open a cap bearing out to make it fit... tighten the cap bolts and check cam shaft movment, make sure you can still turn it easilly...

The only way to open the cap out is to sandpapaer it out but be sure to clean it up throughly before fitting it..

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Post by citronut »

as Jim says earlier the cam caps are line bored for each head, and the chances of getting a set from another head to fit will be almost impossible,

the correct way to get another set to fit is have them line bored on the head your going to use them on,

but all that said you will be destroying the other good engine in the hope that this works,

doing a head swap job properly is not just unbolt one and bolt the other back in place,

there is a lot of work involved, so i would still be in favour of the engine swap,

regards malcolm
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Post by jgra1 »

I have once needed to use caps from a diffrent engine, and got lucky.. worth trying before you condem this engine maybe?
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Post by citroenxm »

As I have said above, I also have achived this, factory manufacturing Tolerences extreamilly GOOD!! and small!

How ever,I have done it in the way above with great care!

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Post by NewcastleFalcon »

After lining up and pinning the timing hole on the flywheel, I turned the crankshaft 1/4 turn to hopefully have all four pistons at the mid point.

I then did the "press down on the valves" test and 7 out of the 8 seemed fine but the one nearest the timing belt end was fairly solid. Looks like this may rule out the camshaft only solution, and further investigation is required.

I have now started the process of removing the head, following the haynes manual. All the stuff at the front is removed and ready to go, but maybe others on the forum who have done it a few times may be able to come up with easier ways that may avoid the scraped knuckles and the swearing when attempting to undo bits and pieces behind the engine.

I probably didn't say but the car is a Xantia 1.9TD. I am hoping that the exhaust manifold and turbo can be left untouched, with the only dismantling necessary for head removal to be to remove the exhaust pipe.

Does the inlet manifold have to be removed to gain access to the cylinder head bolts?

Thanks for your replies. Maybe engine removal is not as daunting as I imagine. Is there a blog or thread on it on the forum?

regards

Neil
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Post by citroenxm »

Inlet manifold has to come off, not too bad, the awkward one is the centre 13mm bolt that has the turbo feed pipe in the way to get a deep socket in there...

You can take the head off with turbo attached but you then need to get back under neath to remove the turbo feed and drain pipes from the block.. so again its best to remove the 6 studs that hold the exhaust manifold/turbo to the head... it can be left sitting on the exhaust..

you ALSO need to remove the stud that goes through the top engine mount into the head, its the one that has the 10mm nut holding the belt cover on, forward of the cam shaft sprocket, its a 13mm head bolt then behind it 16mm thread to pull it out... IIRC this is NOT mentioned in the book..

You also need to remve the 13mm nut that goes through the upper part of the belt tensioner.. its directly nder the cam sprocket... theres no need to remove the tensioner..

YOu'll also need to remove the Engine hoist point bracket from the gearbox end of the head, as it has a sump that sits into the head to stop it comming away..

Regards
Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
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Post by jgra1 »

my xantia blog has a few pics of the TD out.. may help to show some of what Paul is mentioning

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Post by NewcastleFalcon »

thanks for the replies

Maybe I need to start a new thread

"Inlet manifold allen bolts 1 Newcastle Falcon 0"

Access is hopeless. I have used the appropriate Allen Key and managed to get the easiest access one out but have only succeeded in damaging the head on each of the remaining allen bolts.

As said in previous replies the inlet manifold has to come off to get decent access to the rear bank of cylinder head bolts. There is irritatingly not quite enough room to get the torx bit and the associated paraphanalia above it to remove the bolts.

One solution is to hacksaw off the inlet manifold, get the head off and dismantle the inlet and exhaust manifolds when it is off. Bit drastic but I cant think of an easier solution at the moment.

thanks neil
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2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

I got a good few inlet manifolds if you want to do that!!

Can easyilly send you one!

Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
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Honda V F R 800 5thG / MT500 Armstrong
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Post by jgra1 »

Neil. try removing upper RH engine mount (with jack underneath) use a scissor type jack between bulkhead and engine and force engine forwards a bit (at the RH end) should now get better access behind there..
watch the rad and hoses etc.. but your only 'twisting' the motor a few inches

Paul, do the manifolds really need to come off? if they are being a pain.. I cant see why?
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Post by MikeT »

citroenxm wrote:I got a good few inlet manifolds if you want to do that!!

Can easyilly send you one!

Paul
Hi Paul, have you got a 1.9TD manifold WITHOUT the EGR revision?
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L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

Yes John they do HAVE to... the Xantia has a Curved manifold that comes over the top and obscures the rear set of bolts..

Mike, Im sure all manifolds are NON EGR ones, Ill have a look at the weekend.. send me a reminder friday evening!! :lol:


Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
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