Xantia-Crankshaft pulley bolt 1 Newcastle Falcon 0
Moderator: RichardW
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Here's the radiator key I was thinking about. The square end is 3/8 inch:-
http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=20542
Paul
http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=20542
Paul
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Here's a ring spanner - known as a slogging wrench:-
http://www.drapertools.com/b2c/b2citmds ... 419&ipadd=
Not sure if they do 22mm ones. They all seem to be bi-hex as well.
Paul
http://www.drapertools.com/b2c/b2citmds ... 419&ipadd=
Not sure if they do 22mm ones. They all seem to be bi-hex as well.
Paul
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With regard to rattle guns, I bought a 12V impact wrench for 14 pounds in the sale in Halfords a few years ago. I think it's made by Richmond. It's designed for doing wheel nuts. It connects to the car battery. I suspect it wouldn't undo a super-tight nut that you can't undo with a breaker bar but you never know. Maybe you could use one of these to shock the bolt and at the same time apply extra force by hand, maybe with a Stillson wrench on the socket as well.
One thing to consider is that the crankshaft pulley may have rubber in it. Some do, some don't. Try not to melt it or set fire to it when applying heat.
Paul
One thing to consider is that the crankshaft pulley may have rubber in it. Some do, some don't. Try not to melt it or set fire to it when applying heat.
Paul
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I suppose one other possibility is to try an impact screwdriver. You can usually remove the screwdriver bit holder and use the 1/2 inch square drive directly into an impact socket. It's not ideal though because a lot of the force is going towards the crankshaft rather than in turning the socket. It's not as good as an air impact wrench. I'm not sure how hard you can safely hit the crankshaft. Maybe the experts on here can tell us whether it's ok to use an impact screwdriver. Otherwise, use with caution.
Paul
Paul
Hi
You say all the covers are broken on the camshaft (and the belt obviously is gone). I presume this means all the valves are effectively now closed?
If so, I would use the starter motor to do the job for you - fit the socket on the bolt with the socket barresting against the underside of the lower wishbone (I used a strap to hold it firmly in position against the wishbone) then spin the starter briefly. It works a treat, I always use this method now!
You could also try some gentle heat on the bolt head - just enough to get a bit of warmth conducted along the threaded section (NOT red hot!), which will probably help whatever method you use to undo the bolt.
Hope you get sorted
Regards, Greg
You say all the covers are broken on the camshaft (and the belt obviously is gone). I presume this means all the valves are effectively now closed?
If so, I would use the starter motor to do the job for you - fit the socket on the bolt with the socket barresting against the underside of the lower wishbone (I used a strap to hold it firmly in position against the wishbone) then spin the starter briefly. It works a treat, I always use this method now!
You could also try some gentle heat on the bolt head - just enough to get a bit of warmth conducted along the threaded section (NOT red hot!), which will probably help whatever method you use to undo the bolt.
Hope you get sorted
Regards, Greg
2001 Xsara HDI 110 150,000 & counting!
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I wonder if the last person who worked on the car used high strength Loctite. Some of the Loctite is so strong that it's difficult to remove with hand tools and classed more as an adhesive than a locking compound. Most Loctite is medium strength which can be undone using normal hand tools but high strength Loctite may need to be heated.
There's a pdf on Loctite here:-
http://www.loctitesolutions.com/files/A ... _Guide.pdf
Paul
There's a pdf on Loctite here:-
http://www.loctitesolutions.com/files/A ... _Guide.pdf
Paul
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- Posts: 438
- Joined: 13 May 2008, 00:01
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Some people put Loctite on the thrust washer as well as the bolt threads. That might make it more difficult to undo the bolt if the bolt is stuck to the washer and the washer is stuck to the pulley. Maybe you can try to break the Loctite seal on the washer by tapping the washer around a bit with a hammer and punch. It might not work as the bolt is extremely tight.
I bought a new crankshaft pulley bolt recently and it comes with Loctite on the thread of the bolt but the Loctite is only on part of the threaded area. It doesn't go all the way to the end of the thread. There's a gap on both sides of the Loctited bit.
Paul
I bought a new crankshaft pulley bolt recently and it comes with Loctite on the thread of the bolt but the Loctite is only on part of the threaded area. It doesn't go all the way to the end of the thread. There's a gap on both sides of the Loctited bit.
Paul
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What make is the breaker bar that you're using? Is it a 3ft long, 1/2 inch square drive type?
You say that the breaker bar is bending. That might be part of the problem. When the bar bends it means that part of the force that you're putting on the end of the bar is not getting to the bolt. You might be putting 300 Nm on the end of the bar but only 150 Nm gets to the bolt. The other 150Nm is wasted in bending the bar. It takes a lot of muscle power to bend a steel bar. The power is being wasted. It will probably start to heat up the bar slightly if you keep bending it backwards and forwards.
I had the problem of the bar bending when I was trying to undo my front hub nut once. That was a 35mm nut. I couldn't undo it with a 3 ft, 1/2 square drive Halfords breaker bar. I put a scaffolding pole over the bar but the nut still didn't undo. The swivel joint at the end of the bar was opening up. I then bought a 3/4 inch drive breaker bar. It was only 2 ft long but it was much thicker in diameter with a heavier swivel joint. I used that with a scaffolding pole and the hub nut undid straight away. There was no bending. All the force I put on the bar went straight to the nut and it undid. When the bar bends, the force applied on the nut is soft. With a more solid bar you can apply a harder force. You can jerk the end of the bar better and the sudden sharp force on the nut is more likely to undo the nut than a softly applied force.
If the breaker bar is a Halfords or Draper then they are pretty good quality for home use but if it's a no-name breaker bar from the market or ebay then it might be bending a lot more than it should be. Even with a decent brand there comes a time when you have to move up to 3/4 inch drive. Having said that, you are putting a lot of force on a small bolt, and sooner or later something might break, so maybe you should forget about the bigger breaker bar and hire an air impact wrench and compressor instead.
Paul
You say that the breaker bar is bending. That might be part of the problem. When the bar bends it means that part of the force that you're putting on the end of the bar is not getting to the bolt. You might be putting 300 Nm on the end of the bar but only 150 Nm gets to the bolt. The other 150Nm is wasted in bending the bar. It takes a lot of muscle power to bend a steel bar. The power is being wasted. It will probably start to heat up the bar slightly if you keep bending it backwards and forwards.
I had the problem of the bar bending when I was trying to undo my front hub nut once. That was a 35mm nut. I couldn't undo it with a 3 ft, 1/2 square drive Halfords breaker bar. I put a scaffolding pole over the bar but the nut still didn't undo. The swivel joint at the end of the bar was opening up. I then bought a 3/4 inch drive breaker bar. It was only 2 ft long but it was much thicker in diameter with a heavier swivel joint. I used that with a scaffolding pole and the hub nut undid straight away. There was no bending. All the force I put on the bar went straight to the nut and it undid. When the bar bends, the force applied on the nut is soft. With a more solid bar you can apply a harder force. You can jerk the end of the bar better and the sudden sharp force on the nut is more likely to undo the nut than a softly applied force.
If the breaker bar is a Halfords or Draper then they are pretty good quality for home use but if it's a no-name breaker bar from the market or ebay then it might be bending a lot more than it should be. Even with a decent brand there comes a time when you have to move up to 3/4 inch drive. Having said that, you are putting a lot of force on a small bolt, and sooner or later something might break, so maybe you should forget about the bigger breaker bar and hire an air impact wrench and compressor instead.
Paul
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I thought of this method. Try it at your own risk if you want.
Place a 22mm impact socket on the crankshaft pulley bolt. Get a large Stillson wrench (24 inch, like the ones Plumbers use) and put it around the outside of the body of the socket. Put the Stillson on the socket from above so that the socket supports the weight of the Stillson. Pull on the Stillson and try to undo the nut in an anti-clockwise direction. At the same time as you're pulling on the Stillson, hit the body of the Stillson with a hammer in an anti-clockwise direction. The idea is to emulate the action of the air impact wrench and provide both a constant undoing force and hammer shocks which add to the undoing force. You might be better off with two people to do this properly.
Paul
Place a 22mm impact socket on the crankshaft pulley bolt. Get a large Stillson wrench (24 inch, like the ones Plumbers use) and put it around the outside of the body of the socket. Put the Stillson on the socket from above so that the socket supports the weight of the Stillson. Pull on the Stillson and try to undo the nut in an anti-clockwise direction. At the same time as you're pulling on the Stillson, hit the body of the Stillson with a hammer in an anti-clockwise direction. The idea is to emulate the action of the air impact wrench and provide both a constant undoing force and hammer shocks which add to the undoing force. You might be better off with two people to do this properly.
Paul
Is there NO WAY you can bolt the starter motor back on and lock the engine?
I had exactly the same problem..bent a T bar with a 4' scaff pole on it.
This is a fantastic,p.o.p. way of doing it,just flick the key!
I had exactly the same problem..bent a T bar with a 4' scaff pole on it.
This is a fantastic,p.o.p. way of doing it,just flick the key!
CitroJim wrote: My method for a tight pulley is to use the starter motor to help...
Make sure the gearbox is in neutral. Make sure there are no timing pins anywhere in the engine. Make sure the engine is immobilised so it cannot possibly start.
Use a beefy 22mm socket on a good stout "T" bar and trap the "T" bar under the wishbone or other convenient bit of chassis. The idea is to hold the crank bolt absolutely still whilst the starter motor turns to undo it.
After all that is done, just blip the starter. The crank bolt should shock loose a perfect treat. It may take two blips.
It soulds brutal but is perfectly safe and very effective
1999 Xantia LX 2.0 HDI 110 Rusteration project...
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Thanks for your replies.
The Loctite info probably points to the source of the problem.
I think the "localised heat" and "dissassembly when hot" to see if this makes the difference is worth a try and is as per the manufacturers instructions in relation to dismantling.
Les along the street probably has some beefier equipment which I may be able to utilise, as he is an agricultural engineer.
Thanks
Neil
The Loctite info probably points to the source of the problem.
I think the "localised heat" and "dissassembly when hot" to see if this makes the difference is worth a try and is as per the manufacturers instructions in relation to dismantling.
Les along the street probably has some beefier equipment which I may be able to utilise, as he is an agricultural engineer.
Thanks
Neil