c5 2.2HDI exclusive are they all bad? What to look for

[wright]

i would think that most people that buy a 2k car do so because they cant afford a 7k car,
i paid €2000 on my c5 with 148k on it, at best i could get €2500 for it now the timing belt is done and it was valeted and machine polished, why would i spend thousands upgrading and replacing parts that are working fine and will likely never fail while i own it,

[fishdude]

1. Much of the rubber bits in the suspension and there is a lot of it will be well shagged (not to put to fine a point on it.
2 Disks will if they havn't been changed be down to min thickness.
3. Rear radius bearings could well be on their way out.
4. Belts will need changing.
5 If manual gearboxes chances are the Dual Mass Flywheel will be close to failure same for the Dual Mass Pulley on the other end.
6 High chance that some of the switches around the steering column are fatigued to point of failure Computer Reset classic case in point.
7. On 2.2 FAP will be past it sell by date if not already changed.
8 Cabin Internals trim etc can get worn quite quickly i.e soft rubber feel paint applied to various plastic bits wearing away.
8 Aircond likely to be low on gas, compressor front seal could be suspect and close to end of life
Seems like normal service stuff to me so OK.

Maintenance IMHO a Lexia is not an option for maintenance on these cars it is an essential, if you are going to do your own maintenance on these cars factor the cost of one into the acquisition cost if you arn't going to do your own maintenance make sure that your chosen garage has one (and knows how to use it properly!)

Will do.

The filter shouldn't clog so easily if you stick to booting the car for a good distance say once a week to get the systemup to burning temprature as a lot tend to be pootled around and then the heat doesn't rise enough for the FAP to clean off properly.

Noted, as I drive like Miss Daisy


Yes the 2.2 does have a bad press for "Anti Pollution" fault this message covers every and any failure within the engine management system of which there are far more than just FAP.
Based upon my own experience and much reading of the problems of others by far away the most frequent cause of the "Anti Pollution" warning on the 2.2 (usually followed by LIMP mode) is Turbo Overboost, this is caused by failure of the vacuum supply to the turbo control, usually a split in one of the many small pipe joiners in the system or the real Achilles heel the Swirl diaphragm.

Very interesting

Got a few c5 one has 250k on it and the rest are 150ish and the maintenance on these cars is peanuts. They are good work hoarses. theres no springs to snap opr replace and droplinks and ball joints can be bought for under a tenner each. 4 in 1 clutch replacement £200. 100k on a c5 is nothing

Also interesting.

Hmm maybe factor in a Lexia, usual consumables and I could get a very nice Exclusive for little money.

Thanks

Fish

[fishdude]

But back to my original point, what do I neeed to llok out for?


Thanks

[wright]

i have a 2 litre hdi with a tuning box supposed to bring it up to 133bhp, its quick enough, i don't know much about the 2.2 apart from the fap problems,

put the suspension up as high as it goes and then as low as it goes a few times, if it creaks the radius arm bearings will need to be done parts aren't too expensive but they take a lot of labour,

[wright]

common sense, make sure everything works, door locks go and there isn't a button on the door, so you end up like me with one door that locks sometimes, lock the doors with the remote and then check that they have locked, then unlock and check again,

i've seen the boot lock act up also,

there is only 2 levels of spec in ireland level I which has a 90 bhp hdi and then level II which is 110hdi and has arm rests, better seats, etc,...

go for the best spec you can get, i know there are better equipted cars in the uk so you shouldn't have too much trouble finding one

[KevMayer]

My experience of my C5 2.2 Hdi Exclusive SE hatchback is...

I've had it just over 4 years. Got it at 62K miles, it's now done over 131K.

Its comfortable, my wife loves it when we go for long drives with the heated front leather seats.

Whenever I give anybody a lift in it it's only a matter of time before they say how comfortable the car is. My parents love it. Infact, I love it too.. there ..i've said it.

The auto headlamps and wipers are realy good.

The boot load space is massive. You can go to curries and easily throw a fridge freezer in the back (I did, a BECKO model which isn't the biggest but big enough).

The sat nav is great. I prefer it to my portable NAVMAN S80. Although this did pack up. The graphics card type module failed. Citroen wanted £1200 for a new one but I got it repaired by a German electronics company for £450. It's now still working great and you can downlaod new maps for free off the internet.

My C5 2.2 is manual and I tend to put my foot down so constantly return 36 mpg. I drove it very steadily for a brief period of a couple of months and got 42 mpg, 43.5 mpg and, driving so slow I nearly fell asleep, 48.6 mpg. This isn't from the trip computer, this is me working out from fill up to miles covered (1 gallon=4.546 Litres) to 3 decimal places. So, drive steady and it can return the mpg.

Performance has never been as brisk as expected and it seems to hit a wall at 110 mph (errr... on a test track you understand).

I've had the FAP replaced and new Eolys oil, This was pricey at a main dealer at about £500. The timing belt, water pump, aux belt and tensioners were done by a main dealer at £390, which wasn't too bad.

Independant Citroen garages seem to know more about C5s than main dealers. But, If you realy want to find out about them then this forum is better than anything.

[h2ocooler]

Not wanting to tempt fate but My 2.2HDi has 199,000 miles on it. The suspension is smooth, interior (when I clean it) looks great, the engine uses NO oil or water between services (not a drop) it has pased its MOT with nothing needed for the last 2 years and All the switches work fine.

Yes it did have a fault on the airbags (loose connector) and the AC leaked (corroded pipe) but everyone who gets in comments on how comfy and quiet it is.

I can do 450 miles to france in one hit and feel like I have driven 5 miles.

Rob

[veralum]

Put in simple words an early C5 with 100K on the clock is end of life.

Now I know that there are some (many):-) who will contest that statement but in my experience that is close to the truth.

you make alot of sense, a car this age is going to need stuff done and you should go into it with your eyes wide open, I enjoy working on cars and solving the occasional problem but if I whad to use a garage I would be a very poor man!

cars are very complicated these days and I cannot emphasis enough the importance of a good forum, advice and help readily available, and people will to check you car with a Lexia, Perfect!


I bought this car a month ago and straightaway changed the front pads, timing belt kit, water pump, thermostat and coolant. so I would have at least some peace of mind.

in recent years I have had a volvo s80 which had the "check emissions" light on for most of the 3 years of ownership but was never truly resolved , this is the volvo equivalent of the "antipollution " on a C5, it covers a myriad of possible faults, but volvo owners don't tend to have the diagnostic software feely available and they mostly taketheir carsto dealers, so ownership was a less satisfying experience (and more costly)

c5 's are great but like any car go into it with your eyes open

[wheeler]

With respect I do wish after all that has been written on this subject that people would stop saying the anti pollution fault is to do with the FAP filter 99% of the time it isn't.

Agreed, the 'anti pollution fault' will display on nearly all fairly modern PSA cars wether it is diesel or petrol or has a FAP or not. The FAP always seems to be the first thing to get the blame though. To be fair to PSA the 2.2 was their first attempt at FAP & the 2nd generation systems seem to be alot better & more reliable.

The injectors stuck in the head affects all the HDi 16v units of which the 2,2 was really the first wave also affects the 1.4 and 1.6hdi's as well i believe.

Agreed stuck injectors are a bit of a problem on all the HDi engines but can usually be removed without too much hassle/damage however the 2.0 16v & the 2.2 16v engines are notoriuosly bad for it & in a high number of cases a good result would be just a wrecked injector.

[cachaciero]

With respect I do wish after all that has been written on this subject that people would stop saying the anti pollution fault is to do with the FAP filter 99% of the time it isn't.

Agreed, the 'anti pollution fault' will display on nearly all fairly modern PSA cars wether it is diesel or petrol or has a FAP or not. The FAP always seems to be the first thing to get the blame though. To be fair to PSA the 2.2 was their first attempt at FAP & the 2nd generation systems seem to be alot better & more reliable.

The real problem is the stupid message "anti pollution " in english it will immediately make people think specifically about anti pollution devices and the FAP being new at the same time as the message was the immediate target for the muppets for who the FAP was also an unknown quantity, thus is born a myth, if only the message had been "engine managment"

The injectors stuck in the head affects all the HDi 16v units of which the 2,2 was really the first wave also affects the 1.4 and 1.6hdi's as well i believe.

Agreed stuck injectors are a bit of a problem on all the HDi engines but can usually be removed without too much hassle/damage however the 2.0 16v & the 2.2 16v engines are notoriuosly bad for it & in a high number of cases a good result would be just a wrecked injector.

Apply a liberal quantity of Nitromors paint stripper around the injector and leave to work overnight.

Gleaned from a Mercedes A class site which apparently has the same issues. Empor caveat!

cachaciero

[Johnno]

Hi, I thought I'd get into this subject as I've recently had the same warning display twice in the last couple of weeks. I've had both ESP/ASR Not Functioning and Anti Pollution displays occur at the same time. A loss of power followed, but this hasn't lasted. In both cases the ESP warning cleared on the next start-up but the AP fault has only cleared after a day or two.

Are these faults linked in some way? The only other time I've had the ESP fault was on leaving Brooklands and cruising around the remaining banked section (Bentley Boys, eat your hearts out!) which seemed to upset the system a bit. It may be my imagination, but both recent occurrences have occurred immediately upon swerving/crossing rutted surfaces whilst changing lanes (ok, the swerve involved a slight misjudgement on my part!).

What/where is the FAP? Interesting comments about split pipes - will have to check that. If the Eolys fluid is low, there is supposed to be a warning for that, so am I correct in assuming that it isn't likely to be the problem?

All the comments on the 2.2 will have an element of truth, but my own experience has been that my Exclusive has been a comfortable and reliable bus. A one-owner '04 plate bought for £3700 and owned now for four years. Started at 112k and now on 167k. I do a lot of motorway miles every week and for the last 1,700 miles have achieved 46mpg and this is not uncommon. The DMF may be displaying some harmonics, but apart from consumables, no real issues.

All the best,
John.

[cachaciero]

s. I've had both ESP/ASR Not Functioning and Anti Pollution displays occur at the same time. A loss of power followed, but this hasn't lasted. In both cases the ESP warning cleared on the next start-up but the AP fault has only cleared after a day or two.

Are these faults linked in some way? The only other time I've had the ESP fault was on leaving Brooklands and cruising around the remaining banked section (Bentley Boys, eat your hearts out!) which seemed to upset the system a bit. It may be my imagination, but both recent occurrences have occurred immediately upon swerving/crossing rutted surfaces whilst changing lanes (ok, the swerve involved a slight misjudgement on my part!).

The ESP/ASR system depends on data calculated in the injection ECU if the injection ECU has detected a fault within the engine management then the data, engine torque is one item is no longer valid and not available to the ESP / ASR ECU thus you will get a double failure but the ESP failure is not a failure of the ESP system as such.

I have noticed the odd ESP warning when one or more wheels leave the road probably caused by wheel speed discrepancy.

cachaciero

All the best,
John.

[corsehf]

I have a 2001 2.2HDi Estate with now over 200,000 miles on the clock!! whilst my partner has a 2003 V70 D5.
The D5 is much quicker due to its larger engine and possibly has a nicer cabin but i still prefer the C5 out of the 2 as i believe it is much much more comfortable and a lot quieter too.

When buying second hand or even new, there will always be horror stories following.
You will now be aware of certain horror stories that follow the C5 but take a look at the Volvo Forum UK and believe me, it's just as bad!!

Pays your money - takes your choice

[veralum]

You will now be aware of certain horror stories that follow the C5 but take a look at the Volvo Forum UK and believe me, it's just as bad!!

oh yes! as an ex volvo s80 owner i heartily agree

[cachaciero]

Can't speak for Volvo's but was thinking about a Mercedes, the research there indicated a plethora of common problems and at considerably higher prices to fix .

The reasons behind this are common, it's called "value engineering" and car manufacturers have got very good at it, designing components to minimum cost, unfortunately minimum cost means a short life.
IMHO a five year 100K car is a considerably poorer buy today than it would have been ten years ago.

Given the amount of energy involved in manufacturing a car it is time for legislation / financial incentives to persuade manufacturers to produce cars that are designed to give a minimum of ten years trouble free running. One would see major changes in high wear components if manufacturers had to guarantee their product against major mechanical defects for six years.

cachaciero