lumpy start and white smoke 1.9 td

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Synergietom
Posts: 176
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 21:40
Location: Wolverhampton
My Cars:

Post by Synergietom »

Admiral51 Thankyou thats much better than £9 each
Just a quick update i decided to change the first piece of fuel line from the primer to the none return valve with the clear pipe i have and low and behold there was loads of air in the system now i know that changing it wouldve caused some air ingression but surely not that much.
Anyway the primer is now only 6 pumps to prime as apossed to the 12 or 13 it was taking allthough it is early yet so im going to wait till after work and see how it is then a 12 hour stand still should cause it to leak the fuel back into the tank if its going to do it at all now however i am still planning on changing the valve on tuesday as ive allready orderd the parts and the clear pipe isnt really rated for diesel so its going to have to be changed to standard anyway i may even order the glow plugs now and do the whole lot in one at least then i know its done and hopefully it should fix the initiall start up white smoke problem.
Yipee i have the xant lets i hope i keep her this time
Synergietom
Posts: 176
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 21:40
Location: Wolverhampton
My Cars:

Post by Synergietom »

Well i finally managed to get hold of a none return valve and the pipe i had i have told is more than suitable for the job so ive changed the pipes but when taking the old ones off i found that the black plastick block isnt a none rturn valve its just a union knuckle to allow the pipe to travel back on itself.
Ive installed the none return valve in place of this anyway as i dont see as it can do any harm and it will stop any thats already in the system from coming back up. Its stopped the black smoke at 30000 revs now we just have to waite and see if its fixed the white smoke and lumpy tickover on start up should find this out tomorrow morning ( 6 am start out of the house for 5 ).
Yipee i have the xant lets i hope i keep her this time
MikeT
Posts: 4809
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
2008 C5 X7 1.6HDI VTR+ Saloon
x 231

Post by MikeT »

That's sounding promising, hope it's good news on the cold start otherwise it's glow plug time.
Synergietom
Posts: 176
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 21:40
Location: Wolverhampton
My Cars:

Post by Synergietom »

Well it looks like glow plugs allthough the none return valve has helped and im no longer priming it before startup im still getting the white smoke but before i do that i need to change the rad its not leaking but it is looking very poor and the fins are coming away from the straps. Im going to take it to the citroen specialist for the glow plugs as i dont fancy being without a car for three days as i stand swearing at a dropped nut picking my nose wondering how to get them out without getting my fingers stuck
Yipee i have the xant lets i hope i keep her this time
MikeT
Posts: 4809
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
2008 C5 X7 1.6HDI VTR+ Saloon
x 231

Post by MikeT »

Tom, I really suggest you have a go at the glow plugs yourself - as long as you've got the right tools. It shouldn't take more than hour or so.

Pack the area below with rags or paper towel so that any dropped parts don't disappear. A magnetic pickup tool could be handy to have to hand as well.

It might be because I've got arms like an orangutan and am left-handed but apart from the one behind the fuel pump, I didn't find them difficult first attempt and removing a small bracket and water hose made the third just as easy to access.

It's probably best done on a hot engine but I did it stone cold.

If you've got the radio code, disconnect the battery.

Basically, undo and remove four nuts (8mm?) and maybe washers from each glow plug tip. Remove the feed wire or tie to one side. Using a 12mm deep socket or spanner, undo and remove the glow plugs. If they're apparently seized, soak some thin oil (light machine oil or 3in1) or whatever you have around the base of the threads to soak in for a while. Move onto the next one, etc until all done.

Refit is just the above in reverse.
Synergietom
Posts: 176
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 21:40
Location: Wolverhampton
My Cars:

Post by Synergietom »

Thanks Mike thinking about it now ill probably attempt it this weekend rpoviding i can stay awake long enough ( working two shifts tommorow )
Yipee i have the xant lets i hope i keep her this time
Synergietom
Posts: 176
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 21:40
Location: Wolverhampton
My Cars:

Post by Synergietom »

Mike can you tell me if the voltage rating on the glow plugs makes any difference if its changed as ive got some plugs in my tool box and im hoping to use these to try and save some money.
Yipee i have the xant lets i hope i keep her this time
MikeT
Posts: 4809
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
2008 C5 X7 1.6HDI VTR+ Saloon
x 231

Post by MikeT »

Hi Tom,

Good man on DIY'ing the job. I'm sure you'll be successful and should anything cause you concern, this forum should be all the help you'll need.

I've no idea about voltage differeces! What are those differences? If they're 24v, then they won't work. I do know there are different types of glowplugs and fitting the wrong ones will either give cold-start or running problems or burn out prematurely.

I can only recommend buying the right GP's for your engine.
Synergietom
Posts: 176
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 21:40
Location: Wolverhampton
My Cars:

Post by Synergietom »

Yep have decided to buy new so scrolled through to find Admirals post with the link for ebay and have baught some from there chuffed its only cost me £16.00 i did a quick search and found them a little cheaper than Admirall sugested baught them from Keep Driving on Ebay. Will let you know how it goes after fitting.
Also i managed to find a Rad from Euro car spares £88.16 compared to GSF £115.00 so i know where ill be going for that.
Yipee i have the xant lets i hope i keep her this time
jgra1
(Donor 2021)
Posts: 4625
Joined: 27 Nov 2005, 19:07
Location: Kent / Susssex
My Cars: 2010 C5 X7 2.0 hdi 160 exc auto
MG TF 135
Boxer II 2.2 camper conversion
BMW R1200RT
BMW K1300 R
Honda V F R 800 5thG / MT500 Armstrong
x 39

Post by jgra1 »

Tom is that £16 each or for four?

they are not too bad to change really.. get as much access as pobbile by removing air piping, the small coolant pipe that enters the head near GP4, and anything else easy to shift..

I can do mine with a normal 12mm spanner (the tricky two) and a 12mm socket for the easier ones.. to be honest I find the 8mm nuts more a pain than the plugs themselves :)

Take them all out and check each one on your battery.. they are very quick to go red if working... keep the good ones as spares, and do test the new ones too...
John
Synergietom
Posts: 176
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 21:40
Location: Wolverhampton
My Cars:

Post by Synergietom »

John Thats £16.00 for four including postage
On tha Synergie the layout is slightly different and i think im going to need to remove the header tank from its mounting point and leave it to rattle loose on the pipes while i change the plugs but at least now ive changed the fuel lines and the new ones are a little more flexible so they shouldnt be a problem to move out of the way i think the main problem is going to be the fuel pump and oil filler.
Yipee i have the xant lets i hope i keep her this time
Synergietom
Posts: 176
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 21:40
Location: Wolverhampton
My Cars:

Post by Synergietom »

sorry for the lack of update guys weve been having problems with neighbors and have been stopping at a friends till we can find another property anyway back totopic ive not managed to change the glow plugs yet but will keep updating as and when i get chance.
Yipee i have the xant lets i hope i keep her this time
Synergietom
Posts: 176
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 21:40
Location: Wolverhampton
My Cars:

Post by Synergietom »

Ok so i changed the glow plugs and found that the wire connecting all four together was broken between 3 and 4 so i replaced this using a battery earth lead ( short of time ) it all worked fine for a day but now im getting the white smoke again and its still taking a while to kick into life along with this im still getting the black smoke at high revsany ideas
Yipee i have the xant lets i hope i keep her this time
MikeT
Posts: 4809
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
2008 C5 X7 1.6HDI VTR+ Saloon
x 231

Post by MikeT »

Hi Tom,

Congrats on conquering the glow plugs, at least you don't need to worry about them for a good time to come.

The glow plug feed cable is one strong thick wire, do you have any idea how it was broken?

Could your replacement have suffered the same fate which will explain why the improvement hasn't lasted or is it despite this?

I've tried to recap on this thread and couldn't see any mention of the cheapest of fixes - have the leak-off pipes been changed?
Synergietom
Posts: 176
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 21:40
Location: Wolverhampton
My Cars:

Post by Synergietom »

Hi Mike no i havent changed the leak off pipes yet allthiough i have got the pipe to replace them The feed wire was broken right at the connection on plug 3 leaving a small piece going to plug 4 i would say it looks like someone has been there before me and overtightend the 8mm retaining nut which would twist and break the the wire especially as it looked as though it was in a bad condition ( Rusty looking ) and it looked as though they had tried to pinch the wire back under the washer which was then worked loose by me undoing it to remove the plugs.
I changed the Rad today and what a nightmare that was ive never seen pipe connections like that before. Anyway if you think it will help ill do the leakoff pipes tomorrow after work providing my friend doesnt start getting funny about me doing all this work on her drive as we are still sleeping there untill i can find a house big enough for us six and the two bundles of joy due september and december.
Yipee i have the xant lets i hope i keep her this time
Post Reply