C5 suspension leak again

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 21 Apr 2010, 20:07

you say your N/S gaitor/boot is full of fluid, this means you have got more fluid getting passed the seals than you should have,

the return system is only form minuite seapage, this gathers in the gaitor/s and returns via cappilary action,

you should not see much if any in the gaitors,

it certainly sudgests to me you have to much getting passed the presure seals

regards malcolm

civvie · Post by **civvie** » 21 Apr 2010, 20:50

Cheers Malcolm,
I have fluid in the nearside boot when I squeeze it I can hear the slosh of fliud, but it's not full up and solid, off side no sound at all, so no leak there.

Maybe the seal has only started to leak.

Did you receive my PM with the vin?

Cheers Steve

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 21 Apr 2010, 21:52

civvie wrote:Cachaciero,
Can see where you are coming from on this something to think about before I decide my next step. Do you or anyone know if the return is "pumped/sucked" back to the reservoir or does it go back to the pump, by the way where is the pump. Don't really want to spend time under the car if I don't have to.

Cheers

Steve

It is not sucked back to the tank.

The following is how I believe it works not necessarily how it does work

The gaiter actually has two bleeds into it one of which is air.
As the gaiter compresses due to normal suspension movement it pressurises the oil thus forcing it back into the tank, as the gaiter expands it sucks in air ready for the next compression stroke. Now for this to work the air bleed would need to have some kind of non return valve in it such that air can only get into the gaiter. Never having had one apart I do not know if in fact it does I guess that maybe you are about to tell me

cachaciero

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 22 Apr 2010, 08:34

no pm as yet Steve,

cachaciero
i think part of what you say is correct, but im sure there is no one way valve in the breather/vent ,

i do think the movement of the gaitor/bellow's do help any seapage fluid on its way back to the tank,

regards malcolm

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 22 Apr 2010, 10:53

citronut wrote:no pm as yet Steve,

cachaciero
i think part of what you say is correct, but im sure there is no one way valve in the breather/vent ,

i do think the movement of the gaitor/bellow's do help any seapage fluid on its way back to the tank,

regards malcolm

In that case I wonder if when the gaiter is compressed it squeezes shut or partially shut the air vent. There will have to be a positive pressure in the gaiter to force the oil back particularly as.........thinks... is the resevoir partially pressurised or does it run at a slight vacuum, need to revisit the resevoir I will dig around some more.

cachaciero

civvie · Post by **civvie** » 22 Apr 2010, 14:50

The Boot has as you all say two short bits of rubber sticking up at about 1.30 ( as per a clock) fitted into one is the return hose that takes any spare fluid back to where-ever, pump or res. The other pipe is the breather, it has a shortish hose that goes up into the hollow axle via a rubber grommet, disconnected this pipe and there is no valve inside, don't know what if anything is inside the actual boot though, haven't taken the plunge yet.

Cachaciero comment on previous post
I would guess that if their was a major leak around the seals that the drain couldn't handle then it would start leaking around the gaiter maybe even blow the drain pipe off or split the gaiter. or go up into the hollow axle via the breather?

Onward and upward..... Help still appreciated

Steve

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 22 Apr 2010, 15:28

civvie wrote:
Cachaciero comment on previous post
I would guess that if their was a major leak around the seals that the drain couldn't handle then it would start leaking around the gaiter maybe even blow the drain pipe off or split the gaiter. or go up into the hollow axle via the breather?

Well if there is nothing to stop it yes!

Onward and upward..... Help still appreciated

Steve

civvie · Post by **civvie** » 09 Aug 2010, 15:55

Ongoing update to the position i'm in at the mo. Today finally got round to starting the job after getting the seals from Citroen. Released the pressure in the system, no problems there. Started to dismantle pipes then found the thing won't come off unless the sphere is removed. Put everything back raised car to full height cracked the seal on the sphere, then took everything off again. After a lot of banging the suspension unit came away and took it into workshop (shed) stripped it down then found I have two seals inside, but Citroen have given me 3 seals,( they also gave me a printout of the unit from their stores computer and it does show 3 seals), so question is have I been given the wrong part? back to dealer in the morning.
Question for anyone who has overhauled theirs do I have to winkle the old seals out and somehow try to seat the new one in the grooves, or does the body of the unit break down any further.

To be continued......

Steve

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 09 Aug 2010, 17:06

Apropos of drain returns.

We know that on a good system when the reservoir cap is removed a) it requires a lot of force to unscrew it and b) when finally unscrewed it "hisses". Now many have said / assumed that it is pressurised however I believe that under normal operation the reservoir runs at a slight vacuum which would tend to suck oil out of the drains.

Having said that I fail to see how the reservoir can run either with a vacuum or pressure when it has a bleed system that goes back to a gaiter which apparently is open to air through the second pipe yet it does

The second point about drains is that they all appear to be connected together before entering the reservoir and that includes a drain or possibly the main return from the steering system which on my car at any rate seems to produce quite a flow i.e substantially positive pressure this to me means that it must impede any return flow from the rear cylinder drains.

Havn't as yet been able to find any definitive info on how the drain / hyds returns system is plumbed together.

cachaciero

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 09 Aug 2010, 17:27

I can't give much insight into the job which is required to fit the new seals, however mine was done on the car with the unit still fitted.

Its been over a year since it had new seals and its not leaked one drop since.

As i said my dad did my car, he has done many on Xantias etc so knew what to do with it. Thinking about it now I should have done a picture 'how to' on it. I would ask him but he is on holiday atm.

Good luck with it.

civvie · Post by **civvie** » 15 Aug 2010, 13:20

Sort of finished the job this morning, re the three supplied seals and two seal positions, one of the seal positions have two seals inside.
Now the problem, started the car and raised it to the high position, the front came up but the rear refused to. Played around and only managed to raise it by putting a jack under jacking point on side of car and raising the car, it got to full height. Lowered it to normal height and the motor kept cutting in for a few seconds just to raise the car, car then sunk a bit again the motor raised it a bit, have now disconnected battery to stop this. Do I have to "bleed" any air out of the rear suspension? anything I haven't done, did think about the air left in the suspension unit on reassembly if the bore has to be full of fluid how do I get rid of the air inside, or doesn't it matter.

Help please

Steve

civvie · Post by **civvie** » 15 Aug 2010, 14:58

Think I may have sorted it, when the system pipes were disconnected I also took off the middle accumulator/sphere unit to clean the fluid off it etc.
(there is a hole in the bottom of the hollow axle, thats where the fluid leaks out) anyway some muppet on replacing the levelling device thinks he connected it the wrong way. Will check tomorrow, as stopping for Sunday Lunch now and not going under the car after a bottle of wine.

Steve

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 15 Aug 2010, 22:55

Bleeding yes you will need to bleed the system, bleed nipple on the center sphere assembly.

As regards the height corrector.

A a couple of weeks or so back I was playing around with ride height having set it to the correct height I forgot about it until a week later when having de pressurised the system I found that on re-pressurisation the rear would not rise. As I had to go somewhere I didn't really have the time to play around too much but something had to be done

With the suspension on Max High I started to jack the car on the front jacking point by chance with the engine running, once I had got it up enough such that the car lifted a little at the rear the rear suspension started to lift, after which it was fine it would cycle between normal low and high with no problems.
However I did get it up on ramps and investigate further, the ride height was to spec within 10mm but if de pressurised when it goes to its lowest position it wouldn't rise from this position, a very small adjustment on the height corrector was enough to resolve this but now the ride height is slightly out.
I have to say I didn't fully understand what I was seeing and can't explain it at the moment I need to do some more investigation. Might also be related to the fact that I can't calibrate the ride height with the Lexia on the rear as well.
I don't at the moment see that this fault is can be caused by the sensor being mounted incorrectly but.........

cachaciero

civvie · Post by **civvie** » 16 Aug 2010, 18:10

Hi Cachaciero, Think its a lot better since I put the "thing" back on the other way, thing is the short bar with a ball clip on either end that is attached to the susp bar and the electrical switch. Didn't remove the switch so hopefully it cured it. At least it goes up and down on its own accord now.
Re bleeding, thats interesting how's it done? I would assume car is up on wheel ramps suspension is set to normal or high, then the bleed nipple is slightly undone to let any fluid/air out, yes. Of course car is too high off the ground to squash anyone, hence the ramps.

Steve

PS you don't know which bit is the particulate filter on another of my posts?