veg oil

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Are you telling me youv'e never seen a car five years old or less thats done a 100,000 miles? where have you been?
insurance assessors do enough milage in three years to cover that amount of ground just for starters. there isnt any water in my WVO its heated to 75 degrees C four times and pan tested before it goes anywhere near the fuel tank. in fact since I bought my generator Ive been running the heating process for longer each time.

hard fats are always filtered out I'm not saying some animal fats may make it through rasing acidity levels but by the time the oil has been heated twice settled four days passed through 3 filters into the second drum heated twice more settling four days and pumped through 2 further filters, down to 1 micron most solids are removed completely and the WVO is a far cry from what you might get if you just ran it through a trouser leg which is what some people do. when filtering WVO your end result depends upon your investment on decent filtering equipment in the beginning. I already heat the fuel line before starting the engine on my xantia but I am looking into a two tank heated system this summer as I am not to happy with having to rely on blends or WVO/Dino in the winter months. I dont want the pump struggling in very cold weather anymore.

regards Nigel.

[Xaccers]

As I initially said, filtering isn't the issue, it's the other steps which are required to increase the safety of using WVO.

You've listed them here quite well:

by the time the oil has been heated twice settled four days passed through 3 filters into the second drum heated twice more settling four days and pumped through 2 further filters, down to 1 micron

Much less hassle to just pour in SVO and not worry about having to cut it with anything on cooler days.

[evilally]

Certain kinds of rubbers and seals will degrade with use of vegtable oil, it doesn't matter if it's SVO or WVO.

Properly filtered WVO shouldn't have water in it. The very process of removing the water also takes a lot of the acid out, as the acids are water soluable. That's why it's important not to boil the water off, as the acids will be left behind. I've seen various people advising boiling off the water on this site, I would say this is bad advice.

I had the head off my engine after 25,000 miles on WVO. It certainly did not show any detrimental effects, in fact it was in good condition by all accounts.

It's also important to reduce the oil change intervals when running veg, personally I change the oil every 3,000 miles.

To me SVO is simply not worth the hassel at current prices.

[XantiaMan]

To me SVO is simply not worth the hassel at current prices.

What hassle, you can get it for 83ppl versus 120ppl for diesel, just pour in the tank and go, an instant saving.

[Xaccers]

To me SVO is simply not worth the hassel at current prices.

What hassle, you can get it for 83ppl versus 120ppl for diesel, just pour in the tank and go, an instant saving.

Of even 60oddppl from the likes of costco.

[evilally]

To me SVO is simply not worth the hassel at current prices.

What hassle, you can get it for 83ppl versus 120ppl for diesel, just pour in the tank and go, an instant saving.

Factor in the 15% reduced economy to your prices.
Factor in the cost of your increased servicing intervals.
Also bear in mind that the price difference between dino and SVO is often a lot smaller than it is now.
Shopping around to see who has the best deal this week is a pain.
Often the best deals were on 1L or 3L bottles, which meant I was standing like a tit on my drive for half an hour filling up.
Lots of greasy emtpy containers to get rid of.
You still have the general mess of veg oil, stains on the drive etc.
I have no other reason to go to Costco or other cash and carries, so it's a special trip.

I did run SVO for a while before I got my WVO sources and filter setup. At the time SVO was 56ppl which I would have been happy with, but it rapidly rose. In fact, at one stage it was more expensive than dino.

But it's a personal thing, if your happy with SVO then great However the going rate for properly dewatered and filtered WVO is about 40ppl. You could buy a 1000L IBC and have it delivered. I had a company offer to deliver 1000 litres of ready to use fuel for £400, you could fit a nozzel and hose to it and fill direct from the IBC. This would seem the most labour efficient way of doing things.

[Xaccers]

Cassy gets the same economy on KTC veg as she does on v-power.
Service intervals are the same, 6000 miles.
You can recycle veg containers at many Tescos and get green points
Costco is the cheapest place I know of for bottles of pop and 6 months supply of toilet and kitchen rolls, they also do lovely jacket potatoes in their cafe

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Certain kinds of rubbers and seals will degrade with use of vegtable oil, it doesn't matter if it's SVO or WVO.

Properly filtered WVO shouldn't have water in it. The very process of removing the water also takes a lot of the acid I've seen various people advising boiling off the water on this site, I would say this is bad advice

this is why it is so important to have your heater elements positioned properly in your filtering drums, if your elements are at the bottom you will heat all of the oil and effectively boil the whole contents of the drum.
However mounting the element 8 to 10 inches from the bottom of the drums base allows a cold section which does not get hot in the heating process and allows (crud as I call it including water) to settle to the bottom of the drum, which is drained off every now and then depending upon the amout of production that takes place. to boil off the water you8 would need to remove the heating drums lid, better to leave the lid on heat the oil and allow the water to settle to the bottom of the drums taking the acids with it.

At 35 pence per litre it is still 50 pence per litre cheaper than your 85 pence per litre and that is a true costing taking into account collection and heating costs, the waste goes free to a reliable bio-diesel maker so no hassle with waste left over, your trips spent going to the supermarket and queing up to pay for your oil probably use up much more time than it actually takes for me to collect & filter a hundred litres of WVO.

the waste is recycled the metal drums are recycled whilst you fill up the landfill with plastic bottles, unless of course your buying oil in metal drums.

regards Nigel.

[Xaccers]

Popped into costco today for a birthday cake and some mixed herbs.
Veg is about 69ppl, in plastic recycleable bottles and metal recycleable drums.

Many people do not have the storage space for 200L drums, the secure power source to heat them, the access to fill them.
It's a lot easier to buy veg from the supermarket while you're there for the weekly shop (so no additional hassle), fill up in the car park and recycle the bottle there to get points, or fill up at home and recycle the bottles.

Nige, you've asked why people find the thought of filtering a lot of hassle, and then gave an excellent answer with the amount of fitltering, heating, filtering, more heating, size of drums required, disposal of the crud that's filtered out, replacement of the filters etc. You don't have any of that with SVO, and that is why for many people the feasability of using WVO just isn't possible or worth the hassle.

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Xac,

fair point mate, its no good cleanning WVO if you live in a flat is it.
(or is it)?

I did forget to mention that filtering slows down a fair bit during colder weather so your stocks of filtered oil need to be fairly good for the winter months, my main point was that some seem to be under the illusion that it is very time consumming but with anything life you get out of it what you put in to it. I also appreciate you comments about acidity levels but unless the filtering process and setup of equipment is understood it is difficult to judge wether this is or is not a factor esspecially as I am in the fairly early stages of filtering WVO. I have only been doing this since October 2009.

I thank you for rasing the issue of acidity and will look into it further, I thought it was more of a problem in making Bio-diesel rather than filtering veg oil, there seems to be a test kit for Bio-diesel makers but not for those who are just filtering oil, I understood that the heater element location in the oil drums assured that acids settled in the lower section of the drum after the heating process. cleaned veg oil is drawn off after settling well above this settling section.

I think it all depends on wether or not you have the interest not so much the filtering at home space bit, I know someone who filters on his allotment and usess a generator to heat the oil drums, another who uses his council garage and another who lives in a first floor flat who uses a tiny shed 3ft x 6ft for making bio-diesel, even in the winter I have to bring some containers indoors to settle the oil, because it is warmer inside.
(it doesnt smell either) as for storing oil if you want cheaper fuel you'll process it as quickly as possible so you dont have lots of drums hanging around and it can go off if it is stored incorrectly rendering it totally useless.

it is still economical to filter small quantities no one has to have two or three 205 litre drums. as for filters it is possible to clean them with an airline or by drilling holes in an ice cream tub and putting it inside another tub putting the filters inside all wrapped in a bin liner and put up on top of the emersion heater the solids turn to liquid and drain out into the bottom tub. presto unclogged filters.

if you had even a small front garden with a sunny position you could build a wooden box with shelves inside paint it matt black inside and put glass or plastic panels on the front effectively a hot box, cubbies could then be put on the shelves and the warmth of the sun will settle the oil by thinning it allowing gravity to do its thing. the only trouble being our British shortage of sunshine.

No complex electrical heaters needed, ok it takes a little longer but saves a considerable amount of money.

it all hinges on what keeps you happy Xac, and if buying straight veg keeps you happy then so be it. I just hope filling up in the car park doesnt recreate the knee jerk reaction that supermarkets had way back and increase the prices further.

regards Nigel.

[falling-out-with-my-car]

I have dredged the web for as much info as I could find regarding this accusation that Waste veg oil will harm your engine if used continuosly because it may have a high acid content.

I have been advised by someone who understands the chemical proceeses
That in order to have an acid present you must have water to liberate the H+ ions, if you dry the oil sufficently you will not have any water in the waste oil.

hence the need to dry the waste oil.

regards Nigel.

[davetherave]

I dont bother with heating it, i tried it once but it was a pain.
I can see the benefits of it during the cold winter months
as filtration does slow down massively and any fuel filtered during the summer will have turned solid!, however easiest for me is to let it settle and cream the good stuff off the top to filter.
I only filter to five micron but change my fuel filter every couple of months and have a heat exchanger.

To prevent the "going off" i bought some marine diesel biocide and add a few drops of that to the mix, whether that does any good i have no idea, but I have not had any fuel go off!

Problem i have now is that alot of places are getting their oil sent back to the supplier in return for cheap oil.
You have to search alot more for sources of the stuff than 3 years ago when i started doing it!

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Davetherave, PM sent.

I went to the scrappy yesterday for some parts for my xantia diesel and met a fella there who was paying £5 for 25 litres of Waste veg oil, couldn't believe my ears when I heard that, he asked where I was collecting from so I remained a little coy about it and answered oh here and there, dont want him muzzlin in on my patch offering inflated prices for 25 litre drums I'll get completely priced off the road at that rate...lol.

He said he only filters through a pillow case then pours the WVO into his tank, risky I thought, he also said he has to change his fuel filter quite frequently.
there seems to be a dividend in filtering down to 1 micron in that filters can be left in much longer.

as for supplies getting thin on the ground I started this game quite late in comparrison to many other people on here and 500 leaflets only produced 4 outlets. I still blame the local authorities scheme which has outlets signed up for 5 year contracts to give waste oil away to the local authority, even if I go in and offer money for the WVO they say they can't sell it as they are signed up to the local authority to supply them with wVO for five years.

They are putting 20% wvo in tarnmac on our roads which has already been tested and is under way.(this is possibly why the patches dont stick very well).
There was a news item about this a few months agao on the TV.

I would be very interested to find out excatly how much of it is going to landfill in comparison to our wvo waste which gets passed on to Bio producers.

[KP]

FOWMC,

You could ask for the information by quoting the Freedom Of Information act to your LA and they would have to tell you. may cost a couple of quid but they would have to tell you...

[Napoleon]

@ Xac, from your posts here about SVO then, you'd say there was no need for one of these? ->>>





http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vegetable-Oil-Fue ... 345wt_1167