veg oil

[exect]

Hi,
Are there any MOT or Customs & Excise issues when using veg oil?
Exect

[CitroJim]

Hi,
Are there any MOT or Customs & Excise issues when using veg oil?
Exect

Not if you use less than 2500 litres per year. It's duty free. Use more than that and you'll need to make friends with HMRC (if that is possible?)

People who use veg say the MOT is easier as emissions are substantially lower and the MOT man rushes the test as it makes him yearn for lunch so will let things pass that if he was not dreaming of fish and chips he might notice

[KP]

its true on the MOT front as the emmisons are much cleaner from the old TD's i have run on it

[cox377]

well i bit the bullet and dropped 18ltr of svo in now we wait for the fuel filter check

hello there,

You are right, I had a 406 that failed emmisions on diesel but could barely detect on bio.

Regarding the straight veg, watch out for the main fuel pump cap seal leaking. It does do on my current xantia. If it does start leaking ad 7-10% petrol. I left mine and it got worse, I then added petrol and it brought it back a bit but I wish I had added pretrol sooner.

You may not have the same probs.

CoXen

[Xaccers]

l would not add petrol. Thin with diesel.
Petrol will reduce the cetane number of the fuel, which for veg is already lower than derv.

[cox377]

i normally ad a bit of veggie boost to compensate

[evilally]

I find with adding petrol, that any significant amount vapourises and causes bubbles of vapour in the fuel line. I usually blend with biodiesel or pump diesel in colder weather.

[Synergietom]

Hi can i ask my 19 td is on the verge of conkig with no fuel could i just pop to the local cor ner shop for a bottle of veg oil just to get me to the pumps or would this cause problems

[steelcityuk]

I run my 2.1 XM (Bosch) on a SVO/diesel mix. The last lot I bought was from Makro, ktc brand and worked out at 70 ppl (there's no VAT on veg oil).

Personally I won't risk running on WVO, for me that's too much trouble, storing, filtering and maybe testing for acidity?

Just in case anyone should wonder - never run a common rail diesel on veg oil.

The 2.5 TD XM runs great on veg oil.

Steve

[Xaccers]

Hi can i ask my 19 td is on the verge of conkig with no fuel could i just pop to the local cor ner shop for a bottle of veg oil just to get me to the pumps or would this cause problems

It depends on the fuel pump, if it's a bosch then yes, if it's a lucas then don't even consider it.

[Synergietom]

Thanks Xac i think ill risk running to the pumps up the road despite the dodgy fuel i hadfrom there a couple of weeks ago

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Xac,

I dont understand why people think its such hard work filtering waste veg, I have two 205 litre tanks full of filterted WVO Yep admittedly I spent a couple of hundred setting the filter system up, but it paid for itself in three months and having some plumbing knowledge helps.

one days filtering will give me enough fuel for three months and at 35 pence a litre after all is calculated who can grumble at that, its probably even less than you are paying for your new oil. I get on average 60 Mpg on a run and around 49-55 urban driving.(filtered to 1 micron to).

as for adding petrol as a combustion aid not to thin the veg oil because you dont usually add enough petrol to thin down the oil.
10% is usually the limit but we have to remember that 10% petrol is the equivilent of 35% Diesel. I know which I would rather pay for.
I only use 7% petrol which is 1.5 litres per 20 litre container, I then give the car a drink of diesel say half a tank every 5000 miles.
this is said to condition the seals in the pump preventing hardenning and causing leaks.

with each tank of veg oil I add slick 50 diesel treatment during the winter as it claims to have antifreezing properties.(it seems to do the trick)
There seems to be a lot of confusion over slick 50 products but I can assure you that this one definately exists even though some will say it doesnt, all I can to that is they just havent shopped around enough.
in my opinion veggie boot is damm expensive and there are addatives out there with pretty much the same composition, its a bity futile telling people that Petrol lowers the cetane number esspecially if you intend to advise that they add an adative of some kind. anyway the cetane number of veg oil is lower than diesel but you can still run neat veg all year round so what has cetane got to do with it if anything? I have the feeling we have been here before on this one.

there are much simpler ways of setting up a filter system and all the waste gets used by bio-diesel makers who kindly come and collect it about every three months. they boil it up and add it to their fuel to spread it a little further in the warmer summer months.

we have to remember the importance of keeping records HMRC are always sniffing around and may well give you a visit if a disgruntled neighbour gets a bit jealous and decides that your breaking the law even if your not, there have been some on other sites that have been rudely awakend at 6 am on a Sunday Mornning by the police and HMRC to dip their tanks they have been satisfied that only veg/petrol/diesel is in the tank. HMRC will ask for records. esspecially if your burnning WVO.
(waste veg oil).

they are looking for traces of anything illegal for use on the roads.
actually the limit is under 2500 litres a year sorry to be picky but the limit is therefore 2499 litres 2500 litres would be all taxable because the limit has been passed. HMRC set me straight on this one on the phone.

the beauty of filtering WVO is that waste produced from the filtering process can be written off against the fuel produced as long as you get a waste transfer note filled out by the person who collects your waste, my last collected waste which was 200 litres wrote off a whole drum of fuel which could be subtracted from the 2499 litre allowence, buying clean new veg works against you all the time, cleanning waste gives you some le-way.

[Xaccers]

It's not the filtering that's the issue Nigel (although I don't think my neighbours would be that happy about me filtering in the little front garden I have! ) it's the processing to remove the other contaminants such as water and acid which filtering cannot remove.
Now you can just filter as you do, but it is not good for the engine/pump to have water and acid going through it.
Sure it will work for a while but not as long as water and acid free WVO/SVO/Derv
It depends how much you care about your car I suppose.
If it's something which you won't mind throwing away in a couple of years then not an issue, but if you plan to keep the car until it totally gives up the ghost and replacement parts require a second mortgage, I wouldn't touch WVO or biodiesel.

The lower cetane number of SVO can often be countered by the improved lubricating properties of SVO, hence why most people don't notice a mpg/power drop.
WVO has an even lower cetane number, and diluting it with petrol will drop it even further.

[falling-out-with-my-car]

thats fine if you want to pay for 35% diesel to add to your new veg great but its a lot more expensive even veggie boost is £15 odd for a smallish can. might as well just buy dino and forget the whole idea.

acidity doesnt seem to bother those who have been running waste veggie oil for 100,000 miles or more through a Bosch pump.

now pumps seem to either be very tolerant or not very tolerant at all regardless of them being Bosch pumps, I have seen a bosch pump leak after only a few hundred miles on New veg oil let alone filterted WVO.

regards Nigel.

[Xaccers]

Who's been running their cars on WVO for 100,000 miles Nigel?
Even at 20K a year that would be 5 years, well into the time before the duty rules changed when you had to pay ~47ppl (remember they decided they could get more money by calling it diesel substitute rather than allowing the lower duty rate of biofuel)
Back in those days people were being told to run no more than 50% veg, and cut it with acetone, white spirit, meths, lighter fluid, you name it.

Of course with SVO you don't get this problem, no need to even filter, just pour it in and run at 100%, it only needs a couple of litres of diesel when there's ice about, and even then it's not that necesary. Left Cassy with 1/4 tank of SVO over winter, through the ice and snow, she started first time.

Leaking pump seals are due to the lifespan of the rubber used.
Look at the cam cover seal for an example, or even leak off pipes. Over time, despite being kept in constant contact with oil, they deterorate and fail.
With thicker fuel going through the pump, the pressure increases causing the seals to fail where they have weakened.
It is not the veg which has caused the leak, it's the increase in pressure.
The acids and water in WVO will do damage, you just have to look at the inside of a head where the coolant has been run without enough antifreeze to see the rust and pitting.
As I said, if you're not planning on keeping the car for that long, it won't be a problem, same as tackling the rust at the join by wheel arch next to the back seats isn't needed if you're not going to keep the car for more than a few years, but if you plan to keep it going and going, it's something that needs to be tackled sooner rather than later.