C5 Phase 2 2.0 HDI - DPF?

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Citroenmad
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Post by Citroenmad »

Yes, it does have eolys.

Shouldnt cause you any problems, they put up a warning message and light when it needs topping up.

I removed the heatsheild and there is a tank there which has fluid in it. Looked quite low however, maybe a 3rd left to go, its done 51K miles.
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RKM
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Post by RKM »

mmm; mine has done 31k, on a 56.

It is due for a service soon, so I will have a peek. I do not really want to be in the hands of Citroen dealers, many of which do not seem to be very knowledgeable about the product, or how to repair them - that is based on my experiences of owning a GSA, AX, BX and Xantias before.

Would it be worth topping up the fluid, hus preventing a "low" warning light coming on, which will require resetting, or it is just worth leaving it alone?

R
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Post by Citroenmad »

You could have a quick look, at that mileage it should be fine though.

I dont really know much about how its topped up or exactly when its needed. For some reason its hard to find actual information on this, rather than word of mouth, as a lot of people have different ideas when searching around on the net.

I know on some of the early 2.2s when the light comes on seems too late, as more often than not the filter has been changed too. Again i cant find hard facts on this.

Ive heard that its very harmful and must be topped up using special equipment etc. Other things ive read says mechanically minded owners can top up the fluid. So ive no idea.

Yours seems a low mileage 56 plate, if it does mainly short runs it ight be worth giving the odd hard blast to get the filter working and get the soot out of it.
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Post by RKM »

It was an ex-Citroen contract hire car - I was looking for a nicely-specified C5 and this one came up; and has, therefore, been dealer serviced from new. Basically the only options it lacks is the sunroof and the lane-departing ar*e trembler.

It was used around London quite a lot but it has done several runs into Europe but yes, the mileage is pretty low, which is why I want to jump onto it and bring it to a high standard of maintenance ASAP. I have fixed the headlight washers (blown fuse) and there are a few minor trim items that need replacing.

I have driven it several hundred miles, mainly on the motorway but I want to change the oil (last done 11,000 miles ago) before I give it a real hammering. I don't plan to use it for very short journeys anyway (I never did this with my old BX TD), as I have some classic cars that will do that happilly.

I do not think Eolys is like handling acid but I believe it has to be dealt with carefully. I will be doing my own servicing but, I have always dealt with minor faults before they grow into bigger ones and it appears to have worked

R
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Post by Citroenmad »

Very nice, yours is the exclusive with turning xenons, parking pack with electric folding mirrors etc?

It should prove a reliable car, ours is used for carrying heavy weight at the moment and its taking it in its stride.

We service ours every 6K miles, very easy to do a basic service on these.
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re:

Post by RKM »

Basically yes, it's an Exclusive with black hide and the screen, and a few screens stuck in the back headrests for good measure.

Which one is yours, the 110 (pre-facelift) or 136 (post)?

Going back to the original thread, I was led to believe that some 2.0-litre pre-facelift cars did not have FAP/eolys but I am still unsure whether the post-facelift had eolys, despite it having a FAP. When you said about looking beneath your car at the eolys level, were you referring to either your 110 or your family's 136?

R
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Post by zilly »

If it has a FAP it has Eolys fluid, otherwise the FAP can't work.

The pre facelift 2.0 HDi does not have a FAP.

this is from citroen.ie:

The DPFS (FAP) comprises:

- A filtering medium associated with an upstream pre-catalyst, along with temperature and pressure control sensors;

- Advanced software for the command and control of the common-rail HDi engine, designed to manage the regeneration of the filter and the self-diagnosis function. This is the heart of the system.

- An additive added to the fuel by an injection system comprising a control unit, a special tank and a pump.

Regeneration involves periodically burning the particulates accumulated on the filter. Made up primarily of carbon and hydrocarbons, the particulates fixed to the filter burn in the presence of oxygen at a temperature of 550°C.

Regeneration of the filter is controlled by the "common-rail" injection system which activates a series of fuel injections to increase the temperature of the exhaust gases from around 150°C in urban traffic to 450°C at the exhaust manifold outlet. This operation takes phase in two stages:

1. A post-injection of fuel in the expansion phase, which generates post-combustion in the cylinder and raises the temperature of the gases by between 200°C and 250°, to between 350°C and 400°C.

2. Additional post-combustion generated by an oxidation catalyser mounted upstream of the filter which treats the unburnt hydrocarbons from the post-injection phase. The temperature can increase by more than 100°C to between 450°C and 500°C.

To attain the regeneration threshold, an additive called Eolys®, manufactured by Rhodia, is added to the fuel. This brings down the natural combustion temperature of the particulates to 450°C.

The exhaust gases are filtered continuously. Depending on the extent of filter clogging, regeneration will take place every 400 to 500 km. The operation is transparent to the driver and has no impact on driving pleasure.
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Post by RKM »

I ask the question because, more recently, improvements to engine efficency and FAP design has negated the need to use the additive.

That bumf from Citroen was also used to describe that "wonderful" 2.2HDI, when that was launched.

R
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Re: re:

Post by Citroenmad »

RKM wrote:Basically yes, it's an Exclusive with black hide and the screen, and a few screens stuck in the back headrests for good measure.

Which one is yours, the 110 (pre-facelift) or 136 (post)?

Going back to the original thread, I was led to believe that some 2.0-litre pre-facelift cars did not have FAP/eolys but I am still unsure whether the post-facelift had eolys, despite it having a FAP. When you said about looking beneath your car at the eolys level, were you referring to either your 110 or your family's 136?

R
My 04 reg S1 pre-facelift C5 2.0HDi 8v 110 doesnt have a FAP or eolys fluid.
The family 05reg facelifted 2.0HDi 16v 138 Estate does have a FAP and eolys fluid. It was the facelifted Estate that i was looking at with the tank.

The only pre-facelifted diesel C5 to have a FAP is the 2.2HDI 136, which is usually the one which has problems. The 2.0HDi 8v 90 & 110bhp do not have a FAP. All facelifted C5 diesels have a FAP, apart from the special edition 1.6HDI 'Design', which for some reasons, doesnt.
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Post by zilly »

RKM wrote:I ask the question because, more recently, improvements to engine efficency and FAP design has negated the need to use the additive.

That bumf from Citroen was also used to describe that "wonderful" 2.2HDI, when that was launched.

R
Can you provide any data on the Eolys-less FAP?

That "bumf" is still current on Citroen's websites so I imagine it still has some value. If it was used when the 2.2 was launched then FAP hasn't changed a great deal, and your 56 plate C5 will have Eolys as your Citroen dealer already said.
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Post by Citroenmad »

I was under the impression that the eolys fluid worked with the filter. If the fluid runs out the filter can not do its job and problems occur.

I think all FAP cars have eolys.
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Post by RKM »

nope; not all of them use this fluid, although some models, such as the new Mazda CX-7 do use an additive. From memory, the CX-7 carries much more than Citroen's 5-litres - I think it was around 15.

Models, such as the Volvo V70 2.4-litre (hence a Volvo engine, not the 1.6) gets their cats hot enough, so they do not need an additive.

Eolys only reduces the temperature, at which the particles get fried. Some cars either use post-injection technology or heat the cat up electrically to "fry" the particles.

I was wondering whether Citroen adopted this later technology by the time C5 II came out.

R
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Post by zilly »

No. All PSA current FAP literature still talks about adding Eolys to a FAP, not a heated Cat.
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Post by Citroenmad »

Ah i see what you mean now, though no i dont think Citroens are like that, even the new ones now. They have the eolys fluid still.
Chris
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Citroenmad
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Post by Citroenmad »

Ive confused myself a bit now.

Ive found out that 2.0 HDI 110bhp Peugeot 307s have a FAP filter and eolys fluid. However the 90bhp version of the 307 does not. I think this is the case for all 307s and not just later models?

I was just looking back through the pictures of my car, to try and find new avatar, and found the ones i took of the under side of the car when i had the heat sheilds removed. It would seem my car has the little tank which i mentioned i saw had fluid in on our facelifted C5. I can't see if my tank has fluid in from the picture and didnt take any of the facelift c5 to compare. Ill have to have another look sometimes.

Though no 2.0HDi C5 110s had a FAP, or so i thought, so im a bit confused as that what this tank is now. :?
Chris
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