All Things V6...

[DHallworth]

Cheers Ben...

I'll give it a go. Kinda almost wish I'd left it with Luke at the moment! Was getting so close and now feel like I've just taken 4 steps backwards again!

David.

[Ben82]

You'll get there David, I'm sure of it

Just a quick question (completely unrelated to your current issue)...

How much engine oil did you have to put in (I'm guessing you changed the oil anyway)...
The handbook says 5.4L.... however two of the quotes I've had for the timing belt/major service, I've noticed they've only quoted for 4.5L of oil (Both were Citroen dealers, which was even more alarming if they're wrong).

[DHallworth]

I've not yet changed it Ben.

That's the reason I went to the shed to start it to warm it through and found these errors!

The night I had it running for an hour I didn't have time to change the oil so had it on my to do list the next day.

I'm about to change the oil on my XM (ES9J4) which I'd imagine will take the same so will let you know.

David.

[DHallworth]

Well she's been running again!

I charged the battery and followed the BSI reset procedure.

I then ran through every ECU with the Lexia and cleared all the fault codes with it. There were several low voltage faults. The only one that remains is a short circuit to ground on the air conditioning pressure switch. I guess this just means that its out of refrigerant and that's how it stops the compressor kicking in.

The car starts, splutters for a bit and dies. With a bit of tickling the throttle I can keep it running at 2500rpm for a few seconds before the revs fade gradually and she dies.

Next steps are to ensure its got petrol in it by going and getting a can full and putting it in just in case the fuel gauge is talking nonsense. I'm then going to check the MAP sensor and see what's going on.

Will report back later.

Oh yea... Does anyone know where the MAP sensor is on the ES9J4S engine?

David.

[Chris570]

If its in the same place as the ES9 classic it's round the back on the inlet on the o/s, can't miss it.

Can you run a fuel pump test on the lexia? it is sounding fuel-ish, or could it be as simple as crappy fuel getting to the engine now? (can't remember what state the petrol was in when you got it)

Very interested in how this is coming along, but I can feel your pain as my XM did a similar thing after coming out of hibernation. Good luck

[DHallworth]

Right, it's in the same place as the ES9J4 but it's further down the back.

Only way I could see to get at it was to remove the entire inlet manifold. Luckily on the later engine it's 7 small bolts at the front, two pipes and two plugs. Takes no longer then ten minutes.

I took the MAP sensor out whilst leaving it connected to the Lexia, and sucked and blew onto it and the reading on the Lexia stayed at a steady 900 millibars so I'm guessing it's buggered.

Euro Car Parts list these at £129 but surprisingly they're only £56 from Citroen according to the Citroen Service website.

There's a good one on Dad's 406 Coupe but as soon as I mentioned "borrowing" it I quickly got told to do one as I'm not allowed to touch his pride and joy. It's a completely different part no from the ES9J4 engine which I've got a good one of though unfortunately.

David.

[Ben82]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksi ... &_from=R40" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ?

[DHallworth]

Thanks Ben. I had seen one for £24.99.

I've read bad things about after market sensors. Anybody got any experience?

David.

[Ben82]

What about official Bosch? http://item.mobileweb.ebay.ie/viewitem? ... 0797219448" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; works out about £10-£15 cheaper than the stealers I think?

[DHallworth]

I've ordered one of the cheap after market ones, Ben. At least if I get a reading off it and it lasts 6 months then I can get the car running.

David.

[Mandrake]

I'd be wary of any in the £25 range David, you probably missed it in my thread but when I was ruling out the MAP sensor on mine I got one for around that price from ebay and it turned out to be a dud that was dead on arrival! It was also of cheap and nasty construction, lacking the pinhole opening so that you could look right inside through a 5mm hole and see the chip and wires I ended up getting a Bosch one for around £60 but the original turned out to not be faulty so I still have the original as a spare...

Also I concur with Chris - even though the MAP sensor seems to be faulty, I'd still be suspicious of low fuel pressure or delivery perhaps due to a blocked filter through crud in the tank. Do you have a fuel pressure gauge that you can throw onto the fuel rail to monitor the pressure while it sputters to a stop ? Well worth checking I'd say.

By the way I found with mine that the faulty dead-on-arrival MAP sensor completely prevented the engine from starting or running when plugged in, but if I just left it disconnected I could get the engine started with a little bit of difficulty (about 3-4 attempts with a bit of throttle opening) and it would then keep running, and by the time it had warmed up for a few minutes it ran rather well without it, even relatively drivable.

So if you have other work to do in the mean time that requires the engine to run (such as getting it off the hoist!) you could try running it with the MAP sensor unplugged, although you'll want the hole blocked (or the faulty disconnected sensor back in its place) to prevent a vacuum leak.

[DHallworth]

Thanks for the warning Simon, unfortunately I've already ordered it.

The design on these seems to be different when compared side by side with the one from the earlier ES9J4 engine. Unfortunate really as I've got one of them. I read on the internet it was the same as the sensor fitted to the 1.4i 307. I went out to my sisters car on the driveway armed with a socket set to whip it off whilst she wasn't looking however the first thing I noticed was that the plug has 4 pins on it instead of the 3 pins on the C5 sensor.

Oh well, they claim to have it delivered in 2 days so we'll find out whats going on on Wednesday hopefully.

David.

[Mandrake]

There's actually two different versions of the sensor on the ES9J4 with different connectors, the later one looks like the same rounded connector as that used on the ES9J4S. I'm not sure what RPO it changed over, some time around 1999/2000 I think as my 1998 has the old type.

[DHallworth]

Ahh, in that case it's an older engine that I've got sitting here and I'm not taking the sensor off the XM.

Will hang fire for now, time will tell when the new one arrives.

David.

[Mandrake]

Found what I was looking for, the following post from CitroJim has the details:

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... &start=293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RPO8708 (on the ES9J4) onwards use the later sensor that looks like this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAP-sensor-Ci ... 4ab77dc8bc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does that look like yours ?

Mind you Erste Wahl is the brand I got that was DOA. Here's the exact one I ordred that I had to send back:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAP-sensor-Pe ... 4abce5cc83" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's my forum post showing a picture of the faulty sensor:

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... &start=325" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;