Help! Sphere union

Dommo · Post by **Dommo** » 08 Feb 2010, 12:05

Having recently done this I'll admit it is VERY difficult and you do want to torch the car when you can't do it.

Two pairs of hands makes it much easier however, you need to get one person to try and turn the threaded union bit, and the other person needs to hold the sphere block at the correct angle so the threads are all aligned nicely, otherwise you'll just keep turning and turning and never getting anywhere. If it looks at the correct angle and still won't go in get your helper to move the sphere block around slightlyto alter that entry angle, eventually you'll get it..

I found it easier to get in with the sphere block not bolted to its mountings, hence why you can move it around.

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 08 Feb 2010, 13:23

Tried that. The seal just keeps riding up over the flare, even though the nut appears to be against the flare and I'm holding it there. It still won't bite.

As mentioned, it must be the pipe, it certainly looks off centre but I cannot for the life of get it straight again. I'm beat, I'm cold, hungry and angry. Once again, I've turned a simple job into a mess.

I'd buy another pipe from Citroen as it's only about £10 but I don't know where it goes, or if it comes ready shaped with the flares.

ellevie · Post by **ellevie** » 08 Feb 2010, 16:00

Like Malcolm (citronut) I find it easier to fit the seal fully into the hole and then introduce the pipe.

On the BX pipes I have done there are actually three diameters on the pipe.

1 The bubble which the screw/nipple buts against.
2 An intermediate diameter for the next 2/3 of the way to the end.
3 A smaller diameter for the last 1/3 of the way for about 5mm.

This last smaller section might not be locating properly causing the problem.

Perhaps you could remove the seal temporarily and practice locating the pipe correctly and doing up the nipple.

Good luck.

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 08 Feb 2010, 19:57

I'll try without the seal, if that works then I'll try popping the seal in the sphere first.

Getting to the point now that I might call out a mobile mechanic. I must look like a right numpty

Post by **CitroJim** » 08 Feb 2010, 20:55

Toby_HDi wrote:I must look like a right numpty

Not at all Toby, we all find them absolute devils. They are cunning little things and then, all of a sudden they confound you by going home perfectly. Normally after you have nearly lost the will.

That uis a good idea about doing a dummy run with no seal first and then popping the seal in first.

If that does not work, put the seal on the pipe again until it abuts the flare but ensure a little bit of the end of the pipe just pokes out from the end of the seal (say about half an mm) so that it can find the corresponding bore in the sphere as it goes in. If the seal is right on the edge of the end of the pipe, pushing the pipe right home can be tricky.

If you can't get a pit of the end to poke out beyond the seal, cut the seal down slightly shorter with a sharp craft knife until it is such a length that the end of the pipe does just poke out. I find some seals are a tad too long..

Likely a mobile mechanic will struggle like you unless he is very Citroen-savvy..

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 09 Feb 2010, 12:04

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! This is why I love this forum, no one ever seems to tire of constant questions. Endless help even in the face of numptyness.

I've now done it! It's the old sphere back on but at least the car is driveable. Feels a bit better though still in firm mode so once I can get some sealant I shall attempt the ECU.

The problem was indeed the seal. It was too long, I cut it down as suggested and it went home almost on the first attempt.

Thanks to all of you!

Post by **CitroJim** » 09 Feb 2010, 18:59

Excellent news Toby

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 09 Feb 2010, 19:40

Thanks Jim. I'm hoping I wasn't too premature there. Some citerobics has uncovered a soft thud when the suspension is rising or lowering. I do hope I haven't damaged that union. It sounds like air in the system but citaerobics isn't shifting it. Is it wise to exercise the suspension with the bleed screw open?

lexi · Post by **lexi** » 09 Feb 2010, 19:42

Result ! and knowledge gained.

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 09 Feb 2010, 20:23

Indeed lexi, though I fear I may have made things worse. On a quick run up to Halfrauds to get some sealant earlier, something doesn't feel right. The car is leaning a little and doesn't feel planted. I know my tyres need attention but it feels different to what it did.

I'm concerned the union is letting air in as it hasn't gone back in the same as it came out, there is some clean thread still exposed. However, it is nipped up.

I do need to change the LHM for Hydraflush and bleed the brakes (though they feel fine) the only other thing to note was the Activa accumulator (the sphere/union I was struggling with) was ruptured as when I removed the union I got my third douche vert of the day.

Think I'm going to leave the ECU til after Duxford, in case something goes wrong and I can't make it

lexi · Post by **lexi** » 09 Feb 2010, 20:56

Did the union go in pretty easily in the end up? Like nearly by hand? Not cross threaded as that`s a possibility. Spray some Wd 40 on to union with it all running. You should see if it is drawing....even paint some LHM on heavy with a small brush.

I wonder if you actually needed that rubber to be the full size even though a pig to get on?

If you are bleeding brakes you may see any air coming out of hose. I would open Regulator screw again then close and more Citerobics

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 10 Feb 2010, 12:56

Well I may have found the problem. The sphere union for the Activa accumulator is fine apart from being bent and not seeming to be in all the way, it doesn't draw any WD40 in anyway.

I have noticed a patch of fresh LHM on the floor, seems the rear centre sphere is leaking which is odd considering I'm stuck in firm mode. I'm hoping its just caught the seal whilst being done up and that another seal will cure it.

Just wondering if this could cause air in the system.

I'm considering staying up near Duxford, if I can find a cheap Travelodge or similar, after Sunday and paying a visit to Pleiades. My main problem is a severe lack of patience with anything, always used to have the patience of a saint so don't know what happened to it

but I've ran out now.

lexi · Post by **lexi** » 10 Feb 2010, 18:10

Yeah bit colder now too.........patience and freezing hands don`t go together.

I find as I get older I have to save patience up in a jar then take it out to the car

Maybe get another seal and take that unit off and re-do. Was that a new rear centre sphere you put on ?

Post by **CitroJim** » 10 Feb 2010, 18:25

I was like you when younger Toby. Nil patience. As I've grown near to pension age I find I have a whole load of it now...

I'll bet the problem with the centre sphere is that you "nipped" the seal as you screwed the new one in. Angled like it is, it's a right job sometimes to keep the seal in place as the sphere screws on. It only takes a the tiniest of cuts to make them leak.

I've nipped 'em before now. A dab of Vaseline will hold them in place nicely...

I'd say stop over here but things are very awery here at the moment. I've gone down with the mother and father of 'flu and This is the first time I've felt like sitting at the PC all day

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 10 Feb 2010, 20:40

I'll get another seal and sort it out. I'm hoping that this is where the air is entering and that replacing it will sort it out. I'm still not happy about the Activa accumulator union though. Not sure what I can do about it though.

As I say seems odd its leaking from this sphere as I thought they are switched into the circuit for soft mode. I'm stuck in firm.

Where can I get a seal from separately. I'm guessing its not wise to reuse one from one of the old spheres.

While I'm at it, what about a seal for my leaky HP pump? The union on the front that is weeping slightly.

I'll get there eventually, I just can't seem to spend more than 5 mins fiddling with one thing and want it all to go together with no issues

I just hope all is well for Duxford.