immobiliser wont accept new fuel pump?

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 13 Jan 2010, 12:52

Well it was, 1997/98 P /R reg that the last of the keypads went out, as late 1998 saw Revised ranges, with transponders...

Paul

wiggie_me · Post by **wiggie_me** » 13 Jan 2010, 16:02

CitroJim wrote:Yes, if the throttle cable is supported by the armour. It can be replaced and you can replace the shear screws with normal ones.

If the pumps look totally different then you're likely looking at a Bosch. Not a straight swap.

Also, if you look at an earlier Lucas pump, it may not have the turbo overfuelling disphragm and cold start advance solenoid.

I think you're best off de-armouring what you have. It really is not too bad a job.

if only i had the time to wait for this advice, i have jus swaped the pumps for and older one. i really cant be assed with making another jouny back to the scrappy to swap back to im gunna try my luck.

the pump i now hove has turned out to be a bosch ( couldnt tell till i got it out) how ever it appears to have the revalvant cable slots and a vacum thing that attaches to the intercooler.
i am currently moving the studs round to fit the new pump, how ever i didnt think to take the injectors. will it not run at all with out?

wiggie_me · Post by **wiggie_me** » 13 Jan 2010, 16:27

ok i think it may be time for me to jus bite the bullet - not only have i jus realised that i havnt kept the nut for the end of the spindle ( its a diferent size and possibly the whole shaft is bigger and wont fit the wheel) but iv jus let the cam belt fall out of sync by two notches

Post by **CitroJim** » 13 Jan 2010, 18:14

Oh dear

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 13 Jan 2010, 18:54

If memory serves, you'll need the injectors and their metal pipes for the bosch as it squirts in a different order to lucas so the pipes go to different injectors.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 13 Jan 2010, 18:56

Injectors are in the same order, 1 3 4 2 its the output from the back of the pump on a Lucas thats different, and yes the pipes will be different!

Well remembered Xac, even I forgot about the pipes then selfes when I mentioned needing Lucas injectors!

Paul

wiggie_me · Post by **wiggie_me** » 13 Jan 2010, 21:13

i do have the the injector lines. but now i gotta p**s about with gettin the cam and crank back in line. much aprieciation for the information.

mark21td · Post by **mark21td** » 15 Jan 2010, 13:52

The Lucas injectors are a differant presure setting to the Bosch
Lucas = 145 bar, Bosch = 175 bar.
Useing Lucas injectors on a Bosch pump will put the pump timing out by some way, this can sometimes work if you adjust it by ear but it will never be quite right.
You will also need the sprocket for the Bosch as the Lucas one will not fit.

wiggie_me · Post by **wiggie_me** » 29 Jan 2010, 16:34

sorted! thank for every1s help on the matter

Post by **CitroJim** » 29 Jan 2010, 19:46

wiggie_me wrote:sorted!

How? Be interested to know in order to bring this thread to a neat conclusion

endorfin · Post by **endorfin** » 17 Mar 2010, 22:47

Don't you just hate that! Someone gets answers here but doesn't post a conclusion

Also don't you just hate typing out a long description of your problem then accidentally deleting it....that just happened to me! So here goes again....

I'm a newbie here, fresh over from the vegetable oil diesel forum..

I have a 1996 Citroen ZX TD Volcane with a LUCAS fuel pump but I'd like to be able to run it on the regular supply of used veg oil that I've inherited so I want to fit a BOSCH pump.

I've been offered a bosch pump, mounting bracket, injectors, pipes and conections and the wheel for the timing belt with woodruff key off a 1998 Xantia for £75 inc postage (good price) but I'm concerned about the immobiliser issue. I read some comments in this thread that say the code is stored in the ECU and others saying its stored in the pump itself. The 96 ZX with the Lucas pump has a keypad immobiliser and alarm.

My local mechanic has said he will do it for £80 changing the cam belt at the same time, seems a fair price to me? Only thing is he says he's not done one before and can't guarantee it'll work which doesn't inspire me with confidence!

Any advice on a step by step procedure on this, I promise to post a full and detailed conclusion at the end of this!

I found a site showing how to remove the armour on the Bosch pump, thought I'd post the link here in case anyone else would like to know:

http://www.eastment.net/boschpump1.htm

endorfin · Post by **endorfin** » 17 Mar 2010, 23:10

uh oh I didn't make the connection with the 2 sites....I just had another look

am I showing myself for the newbie I am much?

xmexclusive · Post by **xmexclusive** » 18 Mar 2010, 10:26

Hi endorfin

You asked about the storing of the immobiliser code.
If the car injection system is electronically controlled this is usually done using an engine ECU. It is very easy and cheap for a manufacturer to add an extra bit of immobiliser code to the controlling programme. This enabled the keypad to talk to the ECU. With this type of installation the immobiliser code is stored in the ECU. This type of early immobiliser design and is fairly easy to neutralise or circumvent.
Many of the earlier IDI diesel engines had a simple mechanical injection pump. So the engine did not need or have an engine ECU. For a long time these cars were made with no immobiliser protection. When immobilisers became virtually mandatory as part of the "stop car theft game" here was a design that had to change. The manufacturers simply made a little tiny ECU with just the immobiliser code routines in it. They bolted this to the injection pump and covered it with armour to slow down bonnet opening thieves making it far more secure.

John

endorfin · Post by **endorfin** » 18 Mar 2010, 17:47

OK thanks, so how can I tell which one I have?

Mine is a 1996 ZX with keypad and the pump is coming from a 1998 Xantia, I presume without a keypad.

spider · Post by **spider** » 18 Mar 2010, 17:55

If you can see the stop solenoid on your 'replacement' pump its not protected.

It would of been originally if its the original pump from a '98 though (although a transponder type not keypad)