strut top warnings

deian · Unread post by **deian** » 03 Jan 2010, 16:10

Hi guys (me again),

while with paul yesterday we got talking about MOT's and on to strut tops and he kindly warned me about the rubbers underneath my drivers side strut tops are perished, and they could go, he is indeed right and looking from the top today there seems to be some cracking/rust

I had a car full yesterday too, and now after cleaning my car, and doing dry steering (engine running but steering on gravel), i did hear some creaking?

is this also a sign that the strut might give up (it is a mk1 too)

the other one seems so much better than the drivers side, what is the worse damage it will do

thx

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 03 Jan 2010, 16:29

Give the metal a tap with a hammer and drift and see if its really thin. If it isnt but just rusty, run some engine oil all over and around the top, it will also creep underneath. The purists will say dont do it because it will rot the rubber - maybe - I've been doing it for years and have never had to replace a strut top

Peter

deian · Unread post by **deian** » 03 Jan 2010, 16:41

I presume oil will stop it rusting more as well, do u mean lhm or engine oil?
Good advice there, what happens if I hammer through, it will be a weak spot then.

I've had a good grab and with all my might tried moving the car on the suspension sideways and also grabbed the top and with all my might wiggled it, seems ok like that.

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 03 Jan 2010, 18:03

Ordinary clean engine oil is what I use, in fact I rustproof the whole car with it. If you put it in the sills it stops the rot where the jacking points have been damaged, spray it over the rear axle and it stops the pipes rusting where you can't see them. Use it anywhere you can see rust and it will stop it dead, it can't rust if the air can't get to it. It needs doing about once a year. I have never had to weld an XM yet.

Peter

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 03 Jan 2010, 19:28

Apparently, they only pop WHILE car the is stationary, and never while on the move..

I could be wrong, but Im certain thats what Ive read...

Paul

xmexclusive · Unread post by **xmexclusive** » 03 Jan 2010, 20:27

Hi Dei

Get someone with Xantia strut head experience to advise you. I realise that Paul has had a quick look but most of the advice so far has come from the XM camp. Xantia strut heads represent a significantly higher risk of failure than XM ones. They are also easier and cheaper to source as replacements than XM ones. The rusting that can cause strut head failure is mainly caused by rubber delaminating from the steel and then sucking water in to the thin gap by capilliary action. Condensation for example under the bonnet of outside parked cars is enough to run this process and over the years it can attack the top of the strut heads of Xantia and XM's which both have a thin layer of rubber over the steel cone. In the wheel arch of an XM the underside of the strut head is bare steel and despite the much wetter and salt water conditions there is seldom any significant rusting of the underside of the strut head. XM's rust from the top down and PeterN's oil treatment works well if they are not far gone. With the Xantia strut head Citroen decided to mould a further thin rubber
layer to the underside of the strut head. This layer peels in exactly the same way as the top rubber with the same capilliary action to suck water in. This time though the water is available much of the time often with added salt so the corrosion of the underside of the strut head is faster and much more aggressive here. The metal cone of the strut head is a forging so at the bend where the flat base turns into the cone then molecular structure of the steel is streatched. This makes that bit of the cone much less resistant to rust attack. Xantia strut head cones often rust right through at this point giving a total failure of the strut head. Rusting at this point is particular to Xantia's and particularly difficult to examine for.

John

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 03 Jan 2010, 21:50

Yes, a couple of the Australian failures have been whilst moving (slowly).

X2 tops are definitely tougher; mine are original 1999 manufacture and I launched the front hard enough to burst a sphere diaphragm when it came down - tops themselves are fine.

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 03 Jan 2010, 21:54

xmexclusive wrote:Hi Dei

Get someone with Xantia strut head experience to advise you. I realise that Paul has had a quick look but most of the advice so far has come from the XM camp. Xantia strut heads represent a significantly higher risk of failure than XM ones. They are also easier and cheaper to source as replacements than XM ones. The rusting that can cause strut head failure is mainly caused by rubber delaminating from the steel and then sucking water in to the thin gap by capilliary action. Condensation for example under the bonnet of outside parked cars is enough to run this process and over the years it can attack the top of the strut heads of Xantia and XM's which both have a thin layer of rubber over the steel cone. In the wheel arch of an XM the underside of the strut head is bare steel and despite the much wetter and salt water conditions there is seldom any significant rusting of the underside of the strut head. XM's rust from the top down and PeterN's oil treatment works well if they are not far gone. With the Xantia strut head Citroen decided to mould a further thin rubber
layer to the underside of the strut head. This layer peels in exactly the same way as the top rubber with the same capilliary action to suck water in. This time though the water is available much of the time often with added salt so the corrosion of the underside of the strut head is faster and much more aggressive here. The metal cone of the strut head is a forging so at the bend where the flat base turns into the cone then molecular structure of the steel is streatched. This makes that bit of the cone much less resistant to rust attack. Xantia strut head cones often rust right through at this point giving a total failure of the strut head. Rusting at this point is particular to Xantia's and particularly difficult to examine for.

John

John,

We are on Anglesey, apart from me, I Doubt very much theres anyone else around here that know as much as we do, even a local garage has admitted he doesn't know much about them..

The rubber under the wing HAD dropped away on his car, exposing the metal, but there wasn't day light just yet... I understand that you cannot tell when the "Tear" is gonna happen, and is hard to tell while its on the car..

Paul

deian · Unread post by **deian** » 03 Jan 2010, 22:20

garages like to think they know a lot about many cars, but most garages WILL shy away from hydraulic citroens, they won't even pretend they know them, and will give u the one eyebrow, fine by me and paul

xmexclusive · Unread post by **xmexclusive** » 03 Jan 2010, 23:33

Hi All

I tried to keep the previous item brief.
There is a bit more information that I have picked up.
I believe that the rubber peeling is caused by the forging process impacting "millscale" while shaping the steel.
I believe that the process was changed about 1998 or 1999 eliminating this millscale problem. I base this on a new old stock 1999 manufactured XM strut head the I recently purchased and examined.

John

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 04 Jan 2010, 09:54

Ive only heard of Xm ones going when the car has been stood too. WHich is a very odd thing, they must go when being driven too, especially if the shperes are on their way out.

No expereince of Xantias, but if they look a bit iffy then best source some recplacements.

deian · Unread post by **deian** » 04 Jan 2010, 10:42

Oh oh!!

Thats after gently prodding with a screw driver, i was scared to go through on the top, so i prodded from the bottom and up comes the screw driver, I thought the creaking wasn't good.

Whats more is, if you wiggle the steering you can see the bloody thing wobble!

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 04 Jan 2010, 11:08

I hope your not intending to use your car until you get that strut top replaced, could be dodgy

Lucky you spotted that though, could have been nasty.

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 04 Jan 2010, 11:08

Don't shut your bonnet!

Xantidote · Unread post by **Xantidote** » 04 Jan 2010, 11:12

Well done Dei - better to discover it now (even if it is winter)!

Did my nearside last year, and yes, the screwdriver seems to be the best tool, doesn't it. I was initially drawn to the problem by the way the rubber covering in the wheel arch was separating.

Mine went in more or less the same place as yours, just below the sphere.

I replaced with new Citroen item, using the procedure outlined on the forum, rather than removing everything as per Haynes