c5 hdi coolant leak maybe

Post by **myglaren** » 17 Jan 2010, 13:23

If there is air in the system the top hose is usually squidgy as the air will generally rise into it.

The blower for the aircon is on the passenger side, in the footwell. You should be able to turn that off and eliminate it from your investigations. The water pump is on the offside of the car.

I'll have to have a look under my bonnet to see what might be in the vicinity of the brake servo, not showing on any of my photo's of the engine bay.

The reservoir cap should have two valves in it, on that opens when the cooling system pressure rises above a certain level that will vent coolant until the pressure reduces, the other does the opposite and will open to allow air into the reservoir if the pressure drops below about 1 bar, which allows coolant in the reservoir to flow back into the system. Doesn't seem to be working on yours hence the whoosh of air into it and the subsequent draining of the coolant back into the system.

You will need to re-bleed the system as any trapped air will cause problems and skew any attempts to locate faults.

You should be able to blow through the reservoir cap with it detached, from the outside to the inside, should be a pinhole in it somewhere for that. I'll have a look at mine and see what there is to see there.

boristhespie · Post by **boristhespie** » 17 Jan 2010, 13:33

Did you have a look at video?

Not sure how to turn off aircon. Is that just using the button on the central dash?

Also, I know you talked about bleed system but I am not sure of myself. Including what knobs to knobell?

The air did seem to come up not in. I am not sure is woosh was inwards or outward. Sorry.

Have to go to Halfords to get coolant stuff.

Post by **myglaren** » 17 Jan 2010, 13:44

Hadn't seen the link to the video but have looked at it now, unfortunately although I hear the noise I don't know what it might be, going to have a look at mine and see if there is anything similar going on there.

I'll take photo's of the bleed caps. Have some somewhere but it is easier to take fresh ones than root around for the old ones.

ETA:

Bleed cap on the matrix hose. The splatter around it is from the leak nearly two years ago.

Bleed cap on the left hand side of the engine, seen from the front of the car.

I'm sure there is another but I have failed miserably to locate it or remember its location. Staring me in the face, without a doubt.

I was wrong about the pressure cap on the reservoir too.
I have only had it off a couple of times the year before last when the car blew a bleed cap off during an MOT and had to top it up afterwards - it did carry on leaking as they replaced the bleed cap (on the matrix hose) with a tyre valve cap and I had to buy a proper one plus Citroen Antifreeze from the dealer.

It appears to be a sealed system with two hoses to/from it. couldn't see any vent to allow air into it. Both hoses connect into the system, on to the radiator and the other in the cylinder head region. I had expected one to be a vent hose but not so

.

Ran the engine for ten minutes with the blower on and off. All I could hear was the typical blower 'whooshing' sound and can't see or hear anything to explain that buzz-saw noise that you have, sorry.

boristhespie · Post by **boristhespie** » 17 Jan 2010, 15:24

Can you explain bleed procedure or link to somewhere that does.

Maybe someone else will know what that noise is? This noise is on the passenger side (right when looking from front) beside the round thing which I think is connected to the little reservoir bottle.

Watch the video folks.

No, not this one (although surprisingly good), but the link after.

http://video.filestube.com/video,cf7328 ... a03e9.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO0_6p4_-SQ

Xantidote · Post by **Xantidote** » 17 Jan 2010, 16:08

Hi Boris,

Assume you've been to out today for more anti-freeze. Hope not costing u too much.

If it were summer, I'd suggest not bothering with anti-freeze whilst leak tracked down, but bit different in winter - I've no idea how cold it is where you are.

Seeing Myglaren's piccies, I realise how much the C5 differs from Xantia, except they both rely on diesel infernal combustion engines.

The noise, which you say comes from passenger side (nearside):
From Myglaren's post, perhaps this is your aircon, in which case find out how to switch it off, to remove it from the coolant problem. If you go to Halfrauds, would it be worth getting a Book of Lies for the C5? I expect that would tell you how to bleed the system. I know many peoples' comments are very disparaging of the BoL, but it at least gives a starting point, even if it nowadays misses out some of the more complex details. Good bedtime reading.

Knowing how to bleed the system will help you be sure you've not got airlocks in the system.

If you have an underbody panel under the engine, then some leaks from the system & hoses could end up on the undertray, and then drip down from the lowest point. But at least it would be a starting point. Interesting (from your earlier posts) that neither of the garages could find the leak (so how can you be expected to).

Some leaks will only show up when the system is up to temperature and pressure. I've had a fine pinhole in a hose, squirting out a fine jet, but only under pressure. Both the radiators I've replaced on the Xantia have been damp patches along the bottom of the radiator, visible on the engine side. The radiator leaks were only enough to put a few drips & small wet patch on the drive, but would have become worse over time.

Think we need to know a bit more from your investigations. Sometimes a good torch is needed in the darker parts of the engine bay.

boristhespie · Post by **boristhespie** » 17 Jan 2010, 16:22

Thanks for the encouraging reply. The Book of Lies is this whatchamacallits, Haynes?

Got more coolant. Was 15 quid before Christmas now 18. Guess that's a VAT increase for you. (can you get away with water in the heat?)

Last Garage said they did a pressure test and got nothing. Ran it for 1.5 hours (Charged for 1.5 hours too).

I have an under tray, hanging down a little. Problem for me is the car is parked on the busy street so difficult to really get in amongst it and other than putting it up on the highest suspension setting very little available for me getting a good look underneath other than this (which is dodgy) I have no tools.

These garages which hire our their equipment including lifts are a great idea, giving tips when you need it but letting you do your own work. Wish there was one here.

Close to putting it in another garage to see if they can find anything. Just costs so much for what is very little progress.

Problem for me is I need this car to get to work 60 mile away.

Post by **myglaren** » 17 Jan 2010, 17:02

Bleeding is simple enough, top up the reservoir and with the lid off squeeze the top hose to try and shift any air, topping up as necessary.

Leave the filler cap off and run the engine, topping up as necessary, until all the hoses and radiator are hot and feel free of air.
Loosen the bleed screws one at a time and allow any air to come out, wait for a steady stream of water - be careful though as it will be hot enough to scald you - a pair of Marigolds are a good investment

Keep running the engine, topping up and bleeding until you are satisfied all the air is out then take it for a run around for a few miles, check it again when you get back.

It isn't very likely that the radiator fan will come on in this weather so I wouldn't hang around waiting for it.

Check for heat into the cabin - mine is warm after a mile even in -7~-10˚C and full heat after about two miles.
After the bleeding sequence it should be hot straight away though.

Allow it to cool down then check it again.

Repeat as necessary but after three goes there is definitely a rabbit away somewhere especially if there are no visible leaks.
The symptoms don't appear to indicate a head gasket problem though.

The buzzing baffles me though, sounds like a motor rather than something associated with the brakes.

Xantidote · Post by **Xantidote** » 17 Jan 2010, 17:07

Yes, BoL = Haynes. Looked up Haynes co.uk, and they do a manual on C5.

If it were me, I'd want the cooling system right whenever I set off, such as commuting to work, so bleeding the system is the right thing to do. You know at that point that's it's OK.

If you have a major leak, you should see a damp or wet patch on ground when you come back to the car after it's been sitting for a while after a run (or visit to Halfrauds). My driveway is off-white paving, and very good for showing damp patches, in dry weather. If the matrix were leaking, I'd have thought that coolant would have shown up by now as soggy carpets, and in any case, you've not reported any more smells recently.

Parking on busy street makes DIY car maintenance very difficult - possibly even dangerous. My on-street maintenance was mainly on motorbikes, and so much easy to carry out (and no electronic gadgetry). If you had room, maybe run one pair of wheels up on to top of kerb, which would give a little added clearance for looking underneath. I'm unsure your C5 is hydraulic or spring suspension.

If you are unable to find somewhere to safely work on the car, then treat this search for the leak as a learning curve about what's under the bonnet. Working on a busy street will rather restrict what jobs you could undertake anyway, and presumes you have the necessary tools. I've seen the present thread about rip-off garages - it may be you'll have to put your faith in one (find a good one hopefully). If you've not had the car long, did it come from a garage with any wararanty?

Good luck

lexi · Post by **lexi** » 17 Jan 2010, 17:42

Tie a vessel of some sort around the overflow en route so that it will collect any water coming out of overflow. A fume probe can be put in header tank to check for gases associated with head gasket failure at a good garage.

boristhespie · Post by **boristhespie** » 17 Jan 2010, 18:09

Tie a vessel of some sort around the overflow en route so that it will collect any water coming out of overflow. A fume probe can be put in header tank to check for gases associated with head gasket failure at a good garage.

Eh gobbledeegook to me, I really am not a car gubbins person yet.

There is no damp patch as far as I see. Just worried it's headgasket but no milkyness to oil or bubbles in coollant reservoir.

The buzzing baffles me though, sounds like a motor rather than something associated with the brakes.

I assume the little reservoir on the right side is the brakes.

Thats the quiz now folks. Listen to the sound on the video and see if you can identify it.

Post by **myglaren** » 17 Jan 2010, 22:27

lexi wrote:Tie a vessel of some sort around the overflow en route so that it will collect any water coming out of overflow. A fume probe can be put in header tank to check for gases associated with head gasket failure at a good garage.

There is no overflow Lexi, surprised me too (shows how much notice I take of my car as well).

boristhespie wrote:I assume the little reservoir on the right side is the brakes.

Yep, it is.

boristhespie · Post by **boristhespie** » 18 Jan 2010, 19:41

Okay. I tried to bleed. I undid the cap, filled up to level then ran the engine with cap off. Waited until warm and undid the bleedeer cap on the back pipe, the water just flowed (all over the place) and then undid the fron cap and again it flowed. There seemed to be no air in it.

However I did notice the large pipe at the top going from engine to radiator feels cold and it is like their is nothing in it.

I didn't check this after putting reservoir cap back on and running the engine. Maybe because of a lack of pressure (????). I don't know.

I did notice that when I took the bonnet up to look at the engine that there was coolant around the reservoir. First time I have seen that. Never seen it before. MAybe leak in reservoir. Is it two peieces pressed together or maybe I never put the cap on properly. All I know is that I never noticed this before. So may be new.

Incidentally how tight do you put the cap on the reservoir? Am I overtightening and therefore not allowing pressure to be released..

Anyway seemed like there was no air in system which is wierd given how the big pipe felt empty.

Post by **myglaren** » 18 Jan 2010, 21:05

Could be it hadn't warmed up sufficiently for the thermostat to open and flow water through the top hose and thereby expel the air.

Was the radiator uniformly warm/hot over its whole surface?

The cap on my reservoir is seriously tight, quite an effort to get it open and to close it again. If it wasn't properly closed you would quite possibly get some coolant pushed out from there.

If there is gas being pushed into the system and overpressurising it then it would point to a head gasket breach, probably a very small one that just leaks gas into the water gallery and doesn't push the water into the oil.

boristhespie · Post by **boristhespie** » 18 Jan 2010, 22:02

If there is gas being pushed into the system and overpressurising it then it would point to a head gasket breach, probably a very small one that just leaks gas into the water gallery and doesn't push the water into the oil.

Is that a "bugger" moment?

How much for head gasket replacement approx.

Should I get rid ( I wouldn't do that, and pass my problem on to someone else but is it uneconomical).

Am I jinxed?

boristhespie · Post by **boristhespie** » 19 Jan 2010, 19:02

OKay tried phoninh around but no garage near hear does sniffer test.

Thats is, i pressume, except for dealer, who couldn't talk to me when I phoned but managed to tell me that they charge £71 an hour (Yikes! Thats what I was spending)

I did a bit of science, yeah really, I stuck a snotty hankie against the cap or the reservoir to see if that was where liquid was coming from and when home I checked, it was damp/wet but not soaking.

I am jinxed. Seriously in a bit of trouble if this is head gasket, what with two cars knackered and in need of a new boiler. We can't aford this give I just spent 3 grand on this car AND I need to get to Aberdeen at large cost for a temp job.

Lucky? Nope but at least I aint in Haiti.