Xantia - change driving seat?

LD · Post by LD » 06 Dec 2009, 11:43

It does seem that an XM seat is the way to go - so Peter N, please could you keep one of your spare ones for me? I'll send an email to the address in your profile, and see when a visit would be convenient.

Even Mercedes don't seem to get the seats right for everyone - a friend who has a C220 (I think that's the model) has suffered all his life with curvature of the spine; he needed a car upholstery specialist to fit extra material in the driving seat, to provide adequate back support. Yet Peugeot got this right 40 years ago, and they own Citroen . . .

Good to have confirmation that the ride on the GS was better than subsequent hydropneumatic Citroens. Sadly, that seems to be the way things are going - each new model has a harder suspension; which may permit faster driving, but at the expense of comfort. Such a pity that so few motorists notice the finer points of car design.

Incidentally, the GS I tried had Citroen's semi-automatic gearbox - an orthodox gear lever, but no clutch pedal. I thought that an ideal compromise - the owner was surprised when I proved to him that you could even pull away in top provided you weren't in a hurry. That would not have been safe in normal driving of course, but it proved how flexible a car could be with only 3 gear ratios. My TD SX holds on to 2nd until just above 30 mph; so if you stick precisely to the speed limit (we have a million speed cameras around Bournemouth), the engine revs at the same rate in town as it does on the motorway. I might start another thread to see whether the auto box can be tweaked to change up to 3rd a bit sooner - I believe control is electronic.

Ironically, on the previous version of that gearbox, the Snow control could be used to stay in 3rd; but on my later version, all it does is cut out bottom gear.

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 06 Dec 2009, 11:47

I'll be down your way over Christmas if you want to try Xantia electric seats, oh and you'll discover just how comfortable a Hydractive Xantia is when you have it set for comfort.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 06 Dec 2009, 15:26

DickieG wrote:I'll be down your way over Christmas if you want to try Xantia electric seats, oh and you'll discover just how comfortable a Hydractive Xantia is when you have it set for comfort.

SX Xantia is just as comfy and theres NO RISK of it switching to hard mode too if the electro valves diodes go wrong..

Im sorry, but from my experiance Im really not a Fan of VSX / Exclusive spec cars, even though my V6 has it, shes playing up.. were as my SX TD doesn't have the problem..

Paul

Post by **CitroJim** » 06 Dec 2009, 15:40

Although I'm lucky I don't have back problems, I have another "problem" that makes seats very critical for me. I'm a small bloke, carry very little fat and have a very bony bum so sitting on anything that's not soft and supported is literally a pain in the arse for me

Only the electric Xantia leathers cut the mustard for me. I noticed this on Robyn's little 206. The seats are good but not for me. I hurt after a few miles

On the gearbox front, unfortunately there is nothing that can be done to change it's behaviour

Well, not easily anyway. All you can do is train it as far as possible to stay on the most economical map for as long as possible. On the V6 4HP20, which uses similar electronic logic, I find I can "trick" it into third at 30MPH by accelerating to just above 30 until it changes up and then very gently allowing the speed to fall back. It'll then hold 30 in third reasonably well.

LD · Post by LD » 11 Dec 2009, 22:05

[quote="citroenxm"]ha ah ah haaaaa I know the answer to that Peter!!

and

Yes
They do!!!!

The XM seats do fit BUT! Firstly the Xantia seat runners need swapping over, and the xantia seat runner DO fit the XM Seat, but you have to retain the electric seat back recline, but the rest, forward back, and height goes manual... and then if you have a sunroof, open the sunroof because you'll need to if you have a long or tall back, because it makes the seats position SOOOOOO much higher!!

I did this in an M reg Xantia LX, fitted an XM cloth seat, what a damm difference ! It was soo comfortable!

Paul[/quote]

I visited Peter N today, and XM seats are MUCH more comfortable than my Xantia ones. Unfortunately the only ones Peter has spare are from a XM VSX, and we thought there would be problems fitting one of those into my SX Xantia. Could you advise please? Should I be looking on ebay for a seat from a SX XM? Thanks!

jonathan_dyane · Post by **jonathan_dyane** » 15 Dec 2009, 02:03

Glad to hear that the XM seat solution is looking favourable; hopefully someone will be able to suggest which seats will fit most easily. Is the problem that Peter's spare seats are electric and the Xantia has manual seats?

On the 504, I have to say that it is a car I respect greatly. I spent some time in Argentina recently, and they still have thousands there (I believe they produced them there until 2002) and they seem to make up the bulk of the Taxis. I rode in many, and found the comfort level excellent, which brings me onto the GS.

They are superb cars, and wonderfully comfortable. Even the most basic model is blesses with excellent seats, which are both soft and supportive. The suspension is exceptional, giving a very soft ride, but yet grip and ultimate handling is superb. The steering is the best manual set up I have experienced, with incredible feel, and you can hustle them along in adverse conditions in absolute confidence. I once was fortunate to be driving a GSA when a truck pulled out in front of me in a wet road, and I was able to escape catastrophe by taking the type of evasive action that in almost any other car would have ended up with me upside down.

The only reason I don't still run one everyday is that they love to rust, and I got sick of the sinking feeling of observing more bubbles appearing through the bodywork. That said, I intend my estate to be a working vehicle, and once it is structurally sorted and 'tidied' (but by no means made perfect) I hope I have the nerve to use it everyday. The trouble is, having the things parked up is a bit like having a cat and not letting it out to hunt...

Post by **myglaren** » 15 Dec 2009, 09:33

I'm right with you on the GS although mine is but a fond memory and a few bean tins now.

The steering was certainly unparalleled, along with the handling and comfort levels.

The ultra slick gearchange and at the time unmatched brakes were exceptional.

Easy to work on too

Here is a nice one that is tempting me.

LD · Post by LD » 17 Dec 2009, 21:36

jonathan:

Thanks for your detailed comments. Yes, I believe the problem with Peter's seats is exactly what you say.

I only test-drove the GS for about half an hour, so it's interesting to hear more from enthusiasts who are more familiar with that model. The main reason I didn't buy one was the air-cooled engine, which I found very noisy; as a musician I'm highly sensitive to noise.

Still, that was a blessing in disguise, as I eventually ended up with a 504; and have owned five altogether. I had a 505 for ten years - bigger, more luxurious, but the ride wasn't nearly so good - it could be really irritating on bumpy roads around town. When I returned to 504s the comfort was a revelation. If you've only ridden in a 504, and not driven one; would like to; have insurance that includes "any car"; and are ever in the Bournemouth area - you're very welcome to try mine. As a pianist I'm very sensitive to the feel of mechanical systems, and a 504 feels beautiful to drive - real precision engineering.

Experts tell me the engineering in the 504 is extremely simple - but they did it as well as possible. So they're straightforward to service, AND wonderful to drive.

The manual steering on the 504 is only a problem in a crowded car park - then it can be a nightmare; but once on the move, I feel completely in control - just as you did in the GS. Exactly the right amount of feedback, and total precision - I manoeuvred through a very narrow church gateway this morning, with no trouble at all.

If only Peugeot had developed the 504 - given it airbags; power steering; a higher top gear for motorway cruising; and air-conditioning; there'd be nothing to touch it, even now - 40 years on. My Xantia does have those four advantages, but the ride isn't in the same class (even on comfort spheres); and the Xantia just gets you there efficiently, whereas the 504 can turn a 2-mile trip to the shops into real driving pleasure.

I have a friend who's a motoring journalist, and gets to drive some really expensive cars - BMW, Rolls-Royce, etc. After we'd had a ride in my 504, I said "OK, let's be ridiculous - how does the suspension in the 504 compare with a Rolls-Royce". My friend replied, perfectly seriously - "It's almost as good". WOW! Just don't mention words like fuel consumption and carbon footprint . . .

myglaren: A GS for 500 euros seems an absolute bargain to me, especially as you evidently have the skill to maintain it. I've heard it said that a GS needed "an army of factory-trained technicians to change a sparking plug", but maybe that's an exaggeration.

LD · Post by LD » 17 Dec 2009, 21:52

CitroJim:

Xantia auto gearbox: Citroen's publicity implies that the torque converter is locked up in any gear, once the speed is appropriate. I believe that's an over-simplification; what I think happens is:

1st: always drives through the torque converter

2nd: starts by driving the torque converter; but locks it from 25 upwards. That's why there seems to be an "extra gear".

3rd: torque converter always locked

4th: torque converter always locked

So if you accelerate just above 30 to get it to change into 3rd; as soon as there's a slight incline it has to change back down to 2nd - because there's no torque converter to help out. There's such an incline very near my home, and it surprises me that a diesel - with all that low-rev torque - can't cope.

That would also explain why changes between 2-3-4 are never as good as on my 504, where the torque converter is permanently working. I realise it's done for fuel economy, because the converter wastes around 10 percent of the energy fed through it.

To be honest, even around 2000 rpm it's pretty quiet for a diesel; but it annoys me to know that it could be down to 1500 rpm - quieter and more economical. Do diesel engines lose torque below 2000 rpm?

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 17 Dec 2009, 22:12

LD wrote:Do diesel engines lose torque below 2000 rpm?

Older ones yes, modern ones no.

Post by **CitroJim** » 17 Dec 2009, 22:16

Thanks LD, that's brilliant on the lock-up. It can also have limited slip too, just to add a bit more spice...

I notice the "extra" gear between second and third regularly

The 1.9TD is not blessed with bucketfuls of torque under 2000 rpm when say, compared with a 2.1TD or 110HDi. It's quite a sporty, revvy diesel and I guess that's why it's quite well suited to an autobox.

In fact, under 2000rpm the 1.9TD is quite flat really.

Post by **myglaren** » 17 Dec 2009, 22:44

LD wrote: myglaren: A GS for 500 euros seems an absolute bargain to me, especially as you evidently have the skill to maintain it. I've heard it said that a GS needed "an army of factory-trained technicians to change a sparking plug", but maybe that's an exaggeration.

The GS was my first Citroen and was a revelation. I had never been in anything so agile, quiet and smooth, tons of room, cavernous boot and astonishing brakes.

I was used to fixing my own cars, through necessity rather than choice but daunted when it came to the GS. Phoned around a few of the local garages when the rear bake disc sheared off, same when a driveshaft turned it's toes up.
I was hopeful at first but when they asked what car I had and told them a Citroen they invariably said that only the main dealers could handle them. No other option than to roll up my sleeves, grab the tools and get on with it.

Once I had fathomed the unique approach to engineering that Citroen have, it all became so easy and much more like fun that working on Hillmans, Fords and Vauxhalls.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 18 Dec 2009, 11:10

I never had a GS but my first CX was a whole new ball game in motoring. I bought it not because it was a Citroen as I new little about them then but as a diesel it was in a different league to anything else on the market, the power and refinement of the 2.5 engine for 1980 was the stuff of dreams.

It was only after I had bought it I started to appreciate the ride, comfort, handling and ease of driving. The XM is good but in some respects a poor imitation of the CX.

Peter

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 18 Dec 2009, 18:07

Back to the Seat issue here, an XM Electric seat WILL go in, you HAVE to swap the seat base RUNNERS Completely off both seats, The only thing that happens is the back rest has to stay electric... unless, of course you have SX seats from a S2, or Base "i" trim seats on a Series 1...

If your not a back rest adjustment person then you coud always use a battery to get the back rest in the perfect position and not move it again, you can then use the height and forward/backward slide as you wish then...

Paul

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 18 Dec 2009, 20:43

I completely stripped my seat because I put on to much weight and broke it, I took the frame in and had it welded up and re-built the seat it was so easy to do.
have lost five stone now hopefully it wont break again...lol

It has been a very interesting year rebuilding my dads GSA which he bought from Jonathan _dyanne earlier in the year they are amazing cars, they very much have the power to make you swear esspecially when trying to line up the engine with the already fitted gear box, and when trying to line up the front exhaust pipes and clamp them all together. fun fun fun. and a very interesting learnning curve. not long now and she'll be running.