weird stuff with H3 C5 II

viorelovidiu · Post by **viorelovidiu** » 20 Nov 2009, 21:06

I leave my car unlocked and the keys in all day at work, it never goes into economy mode unless I leave the CD player running.

if i let my car locked out is not getting into economy mode next day - i didnt try letting my car unlocked for a day or a night - i`ll check

The pump on mine is completely inactive after locking the car - they will dance around if the car isn't locked, especially if parked on an incline or for some reason if the steering is turned a long way from centred.

this is normal especially when you use handbrake, but if will make the same when engine is running withe wheels centred there is a problem with your front corrector. i`ve get rid off by replacing it.

After being left for a couple of days, it is no different than overnight. On unlocking the suspension motor runs for around 3~5 seconds, then again when I sit in the car, before it is started.

as you can notice in my pics there is a difference between front and rear and when I unlock it pump workin a little over 5 seconds and again when I sit in the car.

How long has your car been behaving the way it is viorelovidiu?

before remounting right front cylinder it was going down in less than 2 minutes with engine off or on (if the car is unlocked and engine off will correct the height for 3-4 times then stops - if the car is locked out it remains low)
last owner doesnt know since is has been doing like this - he considered that was perfectly normal behavior so initially I believed this. After a few days I get stuck in traffic and i noticed how my car rises every 2 minutes till a moment when "she" completly forgot to get up and it`s was shakin me so badly over bumps so, i stopped imediately because I couldnt control it.

I anticipate that it was happening for 2-3 years and the guys at service after replacing my BHI without no reason - now they are convinced that hidraulic cylinders are affected because of very long period of inactivity.

pics when i saw this car first time:

viorelovidiu · Post by **viorelovidiu** » 22 Nov 2009, 17:53

ok! now I`m gonna crazy!

after 20hours of staying in parkin lot - plane surface, no handrake, only first gear coupled - just like before, my car doesnt lower at all, not even 1milimeter

I unlocked car and pump doesnt even start only after I sat in the car (which that is perfectly normal - adjusting height).

Now i remember that`s occured to me once or twice since I bought this car (it was during period when front side was going down in 2 minutes) but it lasts only 2-3 days when front side doesnt lower at all.

after a little chat with myglaren which gave me some useful tips now I think that one of front struts or the front anti-sink valve can leak and sometimes doesnt seal the path like it should.
this evening i`ve had 20kilometers around city and the car was allways smoothly like it shoud.

there is someone who can show me where is located this antisink valve and/or the strut(s)

Thanks!

Ovidiu

Post by **myglaren** » 22 Nov 2009, 18:53

Have you tried doing a lot of 'Citroebics', raising the car to the full height wait a minute then drop it to the lowest position, wait a minute then repeat the process half a dozen times.

It has more significance with the previous type of hydraulic suspension but with C5s will lubricate the full length of the struts and may solve your problem if it is slight and intermittent.

Worth doing a few times to see if there is any improvement before spending money on it or pulling things to bits that don't really need it - at least until the weather is better.

Can't help with the location of the anti sink valve though, wasn't aware there was one but seems a logical thing to have.

There is a bit of a description here about halfway down the page, no diagram or pictures of the C5 sustem unfortunately.

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 22 Nov 2009, 20:50

There is no anti sink valve, as previously explained there are ONLY TWO valves for each pair of wheels, one to pump it up and one to lower it both these valves are in the BHI.
The valves have to be energised to open ergo no power and both valves are / should be shut.

On the H3+ the center spheres have an electro valve built into the manifold this is actually a pilot valve and works in reverse to the XM system i.e no power equates to soft mode. This electro valve is driven from the BHI.

cachaciero

viorelovidiu · Post by **viorelovidiu** » 22 Nov 2009, 21:00

cachaciero wrote:There is no anti sink valve, as previously explained there are ONLY TWO valves for each pair of wheels, one to pump it up and one to lower it both these valves are in the BHI.
The valves have to be energised to open ergo no power and both valves are / should be shut.

On the H3+ the center spheres have an electro valve built into the manifold this is actually a pilot valve and works in reverse to the XM system i.e no power equates to soft mode. This electro valve is driven from the BHI.

cachaciero

in this case there is a chance one of those valves can leak? even after i replaced entire BHI with another one ordered from a citroen dealer? i dont think that could be a deffective unit. so.. with your help i`ve excluded those valves to affect normal operation of suspension and focus on struts

i dont know how to reconigze them or how can be checked for any leaks

thanks cachaciero

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 22 Nov 2009, 21:42

Well we have already covered how to check for leaks around the strut, you need to look for any flow from the drain pipes on the rubber gaiter.

As far as the valves in the BHI is concerned the only way of checking for leakage through these is by monitoring the amount of fluid coming back through the common return to the resevoir.

I am begining to think that your problem may be electrical rather than mechanical, if the reference voltage from the height sensor is defective then the suspension will drop or rise to compensate for the error voltage. I wonder if you have an intermittent connection between the height sensor and the BHI. Of course this problem should also be apparent when driving but then it appears that you have had problems when driving including one occasion when the suspension had dropped to the stops. I would suggest that you check out all three wires back to the BHI both a visual check of all connectors and a physical check of the wires themselves. The three wires that go to the height sensor one should check out close to 0 ohms to ground one will be a fixed voltage reference not sure but probably 12v and the other will be the potentiometer o/p to the BHI

cachaciero

Post by **myglaren** » 22 Nov 2009, 23:36

cachaciero.
I agree with your deductions there as the pump runs when the car is locked, which it definitely should not do.

On the other hand it appears to be responding to the car sinking, which tends to indicate a leak, possibly one of the electrovalves either defective or being held open by erroneous signals, i.e. an electrical problem again.

I was going to compare mine in a more detailed manner but have been out and about in it far more than usual this weekend and have been unable to make any useful observations other than it most definitely doesn't sink noticeably overnight.

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 23 Nov 2009, 13:02

Been doing some more research on this during which I have gained some more confusing info.

In Citroens own training docs for the C5 as regards the BHI it claims to have 4 electrovalves 2 per axle AND 2 anti sink valves ???. They are never referenced again in the document and I feel sure that somewhere else I have read that there is only 4 valves in the BHI. There is certainly nothing on the Lexia to test / check these anti sink valves.
I am going to guess that if they do exist they are actually non-return valves in the "raise" pressure line, that would make some sense in a belt and braces way.

Further in the same document it states that ALL devices on the CAN bus are only active when the ignition is on.....o.k BUT the BHI is on the CAN bus and becomes active as soon as the door is unlocked, on mine at least.

If I assume that the previous has to be a mistake then we come to the BSI which does I suspect actually apply power to the BHI when woken up, unfortunately in the descriptions I have this is not covered, in-fact the suspension is hardly mentioned at all.

As regards my previous comments about checking the sensor apparently if the suspension ECU detects a missing height corrector it will freeze at current height and raise a warning. However my belief is that it might not do that if it was the supply to the potentiometer or it's return that was missing. Note the reference voltage to the potentiometer / height sensor is 5 Volts.

It would really be worthwhile getting a Lexia and some one who really knows how to use it on this one

viorelovidiu · Post by **viorelovidiu** » 23 Nov 2009, 13:10

this thread deserves to be sticky

viorelovidiu · Post by **viorelovidiu** » 05 Dec 2009, 07:22

i`ve replaced that mysterious telescope and no luck at all - still sinkin down on front side....

I`ve managed to replace front spheres with comfort ones from IFHS - indeed is a difference, a big difference, smoother like a boat over waves

Soon as I will replace rear spheres I`ll replace hidraulic liquid as well - then lookin for another pair of hidraulic telescopes H3 type like mine to replace struts/gaiters as well.

viorelovidiu · Post by **viorelovidiu** » 06 Dec 2009, 20:52

ok!!

what are the chances after replacing spheres (saucers) this sinkin problem will go away??? front side doesn`t sinkin anymore, not even one milimeter - pump starts workin only after I sat in the car

maybe will last long as it was last time = 3 days but no more

viorelovidiu · Post by **viorelovidiu** » 10 Feb 2010, 11:22

Hello my friends

as I promised, i`ve came back with flash news.
Finally the problem was gone after replacing entirely both front hidraulic cylinders including struts and I kept only my IHFS comfort spheres. Now, magic carpet ride was recovered succesfully. The original cylinder on left seems to be the problem.

overnight it was sinkin` down a bit but not noticeably - body car remained parallel with ground.

I`ve used two complete cylinders from second hand with 120k miles in UK.

viorelovidiu · Post by **viorelovidiu** » 24 Feb 2010, 09:35

Seems that me or the car is haunted!

The problem just returned after a period of three weeks when it was working beautiful - very elastic - exactly the way I liked it.

When i was waiting for someone about 15-20 minutes I could felt it how rised up twice only on front side. Today, when I was driving to Workplace I felt it how it rised up for 2-3 times just waiting for light turning into red - no bad road at all. home to work - eta 30min. Another moment, I pressed buton to rise up to 40Km/h maximum position and then immediatly pressed button to return into normal mode i can see how the front side goes up instead of going down. about 2 second bettween changing height level.

Front hydraulic telescopes where totally replaced including struts - now I`m completely out of ideas...

I`ll send my old h3 pump to service for checking it. What anything else I could replace to recover my magic ride carpet for god sake??

thanks guys for all help since now

viorelovidiu · Post by **viorelovidiu** » 26 Feb 2010, 07:53

hmm, a few citroaerobics seems to do the trick - now it ok. how this could be related to sinkin down phenomena?

viorelovidiu · Post by **viorelovidiu** » 11 May 2010, 10:08

could someone provide me with detailed pictures or part number in citroen service to help me identifying those parts:
1. gaiters
2. struts
I could not identify them into citroen service that`s way I`m asking you nicely

thanks!