C5 particle filter additive ???

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » 09 Nov 2009, 18:42

john alexander wrote: AND IF IT NEEDS A FILTER £600.

Here are some cheaper ones:-
http://www.buypartsby.co.uk/diesel-part ... ke=CITROEN

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 09 Nov 2009, 19:27

Steve wrote
"The filters are around £145"

my local pug dealers parts manager told me that is what they charge for afillter, but he thinks those are factory re/con units at that price as when they come in the metal parts of the body have surface rust on them

regards malcolm

Post by **myglaren** » 09 Nov 2009, 19:40

citronut wrote:Steve wrote
"The filters are around £145"

my local pug dealers parts manager told me that is what they charge for afillter, but he thinks those are factory re/con units at that price as when they come in the metal parts of the body have surface rust on them

regards malcolm

Hmmm! not good news then. I did research this a couple of years ago when I thought that my C5 might need them. Fortunately not, it seems.

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 09 Nov 2009, 20:56

Save the environment! knock the filter out of the pipe or drill it out and then either fill the additive tank with diesel of better still get the car configured so that the FAP system is not present.This should give you some improvement in performance / consumption and the carbon remains trapped as soot rather than returning to the environment as gas.
Re-cond filters from Citroen will have been washed in a chemical bath but will only have a life of about 75% of a new one, it being impossible to get all the cerine out even with a chemical bath it is cerine rather than carbon blocking the filter, the carbon should have been burned out.

cachaciero

john alexander · Post by **john alexander** » 10 Nov 2009, 12:31

Latest update . Dealer no2 says that the low level warning also comes on when the filter needs changed . I thought that was a separate warning . still its all good news.

Monkeyfeet · Post by **Monkeyfeet** » 12 Nov 2009, 09:31

re: knocking the filter out. I'd love to do that, fully agree with the above post. Has anybody successfully done this? ie no warning messages afterwards. I'm sure I remember it being tried but having probs with reprogramming the ecu's

Post by **myglaren** » 12 Nov 2009, 17:09

Monkeyfeet wrote:re: knocking the filter out. I'd love to do that, fully agree with the above post. Has anybody successfully done this? ie no warning messages afterwards. I'm sure I remember it being tried but having probs with reprogramming the ecu's

The flow sensors will indicate a fault as there will be insufficient resistance in the filter.
You would need to carefully drill out some of the ceramic honeycomb to simulate a clean filter.

Monkeyfeet · Post by **Monkeyfeet** » 12 Nov 2009, 19:15

Don't suppose you know if the sensors are actually flow measuring - or are there two pressure sensors (upstream and downstream of the filter)?
Other possibility could be a differential pressure sensor across the filter?
Next thing of course is how to fool them......

Post by **myglaren** » 12 Nov 2009, 20:09

AFAIK upstream and downstream sensors that will also detect a blocked cat.
The ECU has a map it checks for correct/incorrect flow characteristics.

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 12 Nov 2009, 22:29

This topic has gone around before, there is at least one person on this forum who claims to have done this with no problems, as regards the system being able to detect lack of filter there was some doubt expressed as to whether it would, I think it was wheeler who actually checked the pressure across a new filter and found the pressure diff to be very low. It is worth reading the following :-

http://www.eurovan2.com/forum/eurovan2- ... val-2.html

As far as I can ascertain the engine ECU is not concerned about the pressure drop across the filter the diff pressure is only monitored by the FAP ECU. On the 2.2 at least you can tell the system that a FAP is not fitted this will inhibit the automatic regeneration cycle.

cachaciero

wheeler · Post by **wheeler** » 14 Nov 2009, 20:51

cachaciero wrote:This topic has gone around before, there is at least one person on this forum who claims to have done this with no problems, as regards the system being able to detect lack of filter there was some doubt expressed as to whether it would, I think it was wheeler who actually checked the pressure across a new filter and found the pressure diff to be very low.

The sensor does indeed measure the difference in pressure as opposed to flow, I measured a fairly new filter & the pressure difference was 5mb at idle.

cachaciero wrote:As far as I can ascertain the engine ECU is not concerned about the pressure drop across the filter the diff pressure is only monitored by the FAP ECU. On the 2.2 at least you can tell the system that a FAP is not fitted this will inhibit the automatic regeneration cycle.

Regeneration etc is managed almost entirley by the injection ECU, the differential pressure sensor & cat temp sensor are wired directly to it. The FAP ecu only has a 16 pin connector & deals with injecting the additive & monitoring the additive level, the only direct inputs it really has is the fuel cap sensor & additive level sensor, all its other info comes via the multiplex network.
In theory unproraming the FAP system after removing the filter should not bring up any warnings, although the differential pressure sensor is still there & the injection ECU can still see data from it , it should not do anything about it as it only needs this info for the FAP system which it now wouldnt have.

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 14 Nov 2009, 22:05

Ah! well, that made me go away and read some more

during which I found out some other things I hadn't appreciated like the BSI being in the middle of the comms chain between injection ECU and FAP ecu, and as wheeler says the pressure differential is used for more than just warning of a clogged filter the injection ECU actually monitors the dif pressure to decide when to do a regeneration cycle. All makes sense, not much point in doing a regeneration cycle if the filter is not clogged.
The data I have says that the pressure drop across a clogged filter is > 900mB.
Further given that one of the main reasons for the catalytic converter appears to be to raise exhaust gas temp even higher for the purposes of regeneration if regeneration was no longer required because of FAP removal why not get rid of the catalytic converter at the same time?

cachaciero

rmunns · Post by **rmunns** » 16 Nov 2009, 22:17

Found this, maybe it is of some use?

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ ... 1&m=425975

john alexander · Post by **john alexander** » 01 Dec 2009, 19:42

Hi everyone , happy result . I phoned the dealer who previously serviced the car before I got it and they knew what they were talking about . The end result being total refill of eyloys !!! , reset system and forced regeneration for £150 , and they washed the car. Now thats out the way the power steering pump has started creaking and groaning , I,ve had a look in the top of the tank , should I be able to see fluid . The BOL is as clear as mud on this . Regards John.

Post by **myglaren** » 01 Dec 2009, 20:04

Yes the fluid should be visible. If there is none or it is low then it is likely there is a leak somewhere, or perhaps the return pipe from the rear gaiter is blocked and it has all accumulated in the gaiter.

Running it low wouldn't be too good for the pump.

Did you open the reservoir? It is supposed to be pressurised!