Another V6 Bites the Dust

Post by **xantia_v6** » 24 Oct 2009, 18:35

I am sorry to report that my beloved Mk1 Xantia V6 appears to have fallen victim to the same disease that afflicted Jim's before he resurrected it.

Last Sunday I was telling Jim how well it was running, and we agreed that I would notice any early signs of transmission failure (we were actually considering the condition of my Mk2 Xantia, but that is another story).

On Tuesday I noticed a very slight surging of the engine when running along a flat road at constant speed of about 50MPH. It was very subtle, and I had to concentrate carefully to be sure it was actually there, and then to assure myself that the engine note rose slightly in phase with the feeling of acceleration (I was worried that if it were out of phase it might be a symptom of a slipping torque converter). I decided that it felt like a 'lean misfire' and might be due to a bad batch of supermarket fuel, and didn't really notice it for the rest of the week.

This morning I filled the car with fuel from a different supermarket and drove to and across London and back. On the way back, after getting onto the motorway, the car had bouts where it seemed to be misfiring badly, like the coil pack was failing for a pair of cylinders, but no engine management light. This went away after a few minutes, and the next 50 miles home was uneventful, except for a bout of misfire when pulling into our street.

All this time the transmission appeared to behave perfectly.

Later this afternoon I took the car for a short run to check that the misfire was still there (it was, but only under load), and then swapped the coil pack from the other car.

On taking it out for a test run, it ran perfectly for about a quarter of a mile, then the engine just cut out completely, and I drifted to a halt. I restarted it and drove another hundred yards, and the engine cut out again, and I drifted to a halt. This time when I went to restart it, the starter really struggled to turn the engine over, but after a couple of attempts it turned over normally and fired up. Unfortunately there was now a stange noise from under the bonnet that sounded like a loud tapping, but by the time I lifted the bonnet, it was more like a rumble, coming from the left hand end of the engine.

I drove very slowly back home. The rumble turns into a whine when the car gets up any speed. The transmission still seems to change gear OK (but I was not going fast enough to get out of second). No engine management or transmission warning lights.

You can hear it being started and revved briefly to about 1500 RPM
here.

So the car is now sitting on the front lawn, awaiting its fate.

A couple of footnotes:

I think the engine cutting out was actually due to the transmission momentarily seizing, which also caused the starter motor to struggle.

I am 99% sure that the noise only began after the engine started after the starter struggled.

The current noises seem to be entirely related to engine speed, and not vehicle speed, but seem to come from the transmission end of the engine.

Post by **CitroJim** » 24 Oct 2009, 19:37

Oh dear oh dear

It really does sound like the gearbox has bid (or is in the process) of bidding a fond farewell. The rumbling and whining I've heard once on mine after doing a fluid change and slipping the end cover off to re-shim the input shaft, thus drying the 'box totally. It was precisely that noise for a split second until the oil got circulating again.

It sounds so much like a low oil pressure and the pump cavitating.

The cutting out is quite possible if you were only on light throttle. A lock-up could well stall the engine but the starter having difficulty is odd unless the TC lockup clutch remained operated for some reason (blockage?) and imposed a heavy load.

I can only suggest the next course of action is to flat-bed the patient over to Newport Pagnell for a full examination and diagnosis.

We can make her better

EDIT: Chances are, no serious damage has been done to the gearbox if there is still some pressure and it still drives to a degree. I'd not move it another inch though, under its own power.

Post by **CitroJim** » 24 Oct 2009, 19:43

Just listened to the audio file. That's almost precisely the noise I heard very briefly on mine after a total drain. Don't even start it again, let alone try to move it.

deian · Post by **deian** » 24 Oct 2009, 20:59

Oh dear, I couldn't even begin to describe the problem, but more than anything it firstly sounds to me like the torque converter is running dry (hence the horrid noise as the engine speed goes up)...

if anyone has the patience to fix this kind of problem then it is jim, good luck to you both

Post by **CitroJim** » 24 Oct 2009, 22:25

deian wrote: it firstly sounds to me like the torque converter is running dry (hence the horrid noise as the engine speed goes up)...

When I ran mine with the gearbox very dead and no oil pressure at all, and by extension a dry torque converter (as signified by the gearbox oil level being very high), there was total and absolute silence from the gearbox.

The gearbox oil pump is a massive affair and has a nice bellhousing to amplify and resonate it's distress calls...

I can see your thinking though Dei but the arrangement of the input shaft and stator tail ensures that nothing rotational can contact each other in the TC when it runs dry unless something really catastrophic has happened to the TC and at this stage we cannot rule that out as a possibility.

deian · Post by **deian** » 25 Oct 2009, 01:30

CitroJim wrote:
deian wrote: it firstly sounds to me like the torque converter is running dry (hence the horrid noise as the engine speed goes up)...
When I ran mine with the gearbox very dead and no oil pressure at all, and by extension a dry torque converter (as signified by the gearbox oil level being very high), there was total and absolute silence from the gearbox.

The gearbox oil pump is a massive affair and has a nice bellhousing to amplify and resonate it's distress calls...

I can see your thinking though Dei but the arrangement of the input shaft and stator tail ensures that nothing rotational can contact each other in the TC when it runs dry unless something really catastrophic has happened to the TC and at this stage we cannot rule that out as a possibility.

I see your thinking now too, hopefully there isn't anything mechanically wrong, I will be interested to follow this and find out what is that noise, so please do keep me posted on this issue.

Sid_the_Squid · Post by **Sid_the_Squid** » 25 Oct 2009, 11:55

Oh no awful news xantia_v6

Now I'm scared, because my V6 has on a couple of cold mornings felt like 1 cylinder is not running until the coolant reaches about 60

Hopefully the mighty Jim will be able to save another V6

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 25 Oct 2009, 12:31

These V6's seem to be dropping like flies - mine hasn't started for 2 months
now despite efforts to try and diagnose the lock out.

Least you've got an engine that starts! I may have discovered why this
one has a low mileage - it's spent large amounts of it's life pissing people
off playing hard to get.

I really hope you and Jim get somewhere with the stricken rare beastie
and will follow progress with interest.

Andrew

deian · Post by **deian** » 25 Oct 2009, 13:21

Glad i have the 1.9td now

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 25 Oct 2009, 14:12

deian wrote:Glad i have the 1.9td now

x2 8)