I understand that it is gradual process until sphere is "gone".
How can i check speres condition on my Xantia 97 hydropneumatic?
I bought it before one year and it seems became harder.
Thanks ahead
Mark
[?]
Spheres check methods
Moderator: RichardW
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blueboy2001
- Posts: 423
- Joined: 29 Jan 2003, 04:16
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Its quite difficult really, when my spheres went the car would still push down at the back, but the first thing the guy that changed them did is push on the back of the car and immediately said they were flat.
Unless you have another car for direct comparison its hard to judge, but the corners should push down very easily, much more easily than a sprung car.
You really have 2 choices - If you're not going to change the spheres yourself, take it to somewhere who can test them for you. Where I got mine done they took them off and tested them, the rears were as good as flat (under 10bar pressure - should be 30 or 40bar) but the front were about 30 - should be 55. The guy said that they probably wouldn't affect the ride too much at that pressure, but they would probably be flat in 12 months and it was up to me wheter I wanted them changed. In the end I decided to have all 4 done (accumilator had been done previously) and the ride went from being bouncy to really smooth again.
If your going to do them yourself, then change them and hope it improves the ride. Spheres are generally past their best after 3 yrs, so if they are that age or older its probably worthwhile changing them.
Unless you have another car for direct comparison its hard to judge, but the corners should push down very easily, much more easily than a sprung car.
You really have 2 choices - If you're not going to change the spheres yourself, take it to somewhere who can test them for you. Where I got mine done they took them off and tested them, the rears were as good as flat (under 10bar pressure - should be 30 or 40bar) but the front were about 30 - should be 55. The guy said that they probably wouldn't affect the ride too much at that pressure, but they would probably be flat in 12 months and it was up to me wheter I wanted them changed. In the end I decided to have all 4 done (accumilator had been done previously) and the ride went from being bouncy to really smooth again.
If your going to do them yourself, then change them and hope it improves the ride. Spheres are generally past their best after 3 yrs, so if they are that age or older its probably worthwhile changing them.
Reading Your reply I remembered that after battery replacement some lights started to blink. My friend said that it happens sometime (temprorary computer failure) and pass after a week. Dont know whether it is correct, but my question is:
does riding depends of computer condition?
Are there computer controlled valves?
Enother question: can I compire my Xantia vs C5(absolutely new) regarding spheres condition?
[:I]
does riding depends of computer condition?
Are there computer controlled valves?
Enother question: can I compire my Xantia vs C5(absolutely new) regarding spheres condition?
[:I]
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blueboy2001
- Posts: 423
- Joined: 29 Jan 2003, 04:16
- Location:
- My Cars:
Is your car Hydractive (eg a VSX or Exclusive trim version) - if it is then it will have a button directly above the height lever to switch it on and off.
Standard hydropneumatic Xantias are purely mechanical in operation, so electrics wont affect ride height. A hydractive car does have electrical controls to set between soft and hard mode. If your car is Hydractive, turn it off and the ride should soften up a fair bit.
I was referring to my Xantia TD when talking about the spheres. The system on the C5 behaves completely differently - the car doesn't push down anything like as easy as a Xantia, but still gives a terrific ride but it doesn't seem to have anywhere near the suspension travel of older cars, and the ride is lot more controlled.
With each generation of Hydropneumatic suspension Citroen seem to try and get the behaviour as close to a sprung car as possible, but retain the excellent ride quality and self levelling properties, and they are not far away with Hydractive 3 in my view. In many respects the C5 doesn't feel like a proper Citroen - the normal brakes for instance and fairly weighty steering are nothing like a Citroen of old. It still has its Citroen quirks, but its very much watered down to feel like an "ordinary" car, but these days ordinary sells cars.
Standard hydropneumatic Xantias are purely mechanical in operation, so electrics wont affect ride height. A hydractive car does have electrical controls to set between soft and hard mode. If your car is Hydractive, turn it off and the ride should soften up a fair bit.
I was referring to my Xantia TD when talking about the spheres. The system on the C5 behaves completely differently - the car doesn't push down anything like as easy as a Xantia, but still gives a terrific ride but it doesn't seem to have anywhere near the suspension travel of older cars, and the ride is lot more controlled.
With each generation of Hydropneumatic suspension Citroen seem to try and get the behaviour as close to a sprung car as possible, but retain the excellent ride quality and self levelling properties, and they are not far away with Hydractive 3 in my view. In many respects the C5 doesn't feel like a proper Citroen - the normal brakes for instance and fairly weighty steering are nothing like a Citroen of old. It still has its Citroen quirks, but its very much watered down to feel like an "ordinary" car, but these days ordinary sells cars.
Today I provided spheres checking as per Alexx recommendation.
With idle engine I pressed each corner of the car. It travelled down about 4 cm at each corner. I understand that for front it is OK, but for rear-not.On front suspension still installed Cirto original spheres (since 97!), on rear -two spheres were replaced in November 2000, 45000 km.
What You think?
[8)]
With idle engine I pressed each corner of the car. It travelled down about 4 cm at each corner. I understand that for front it is OK, but for rear-not.On front suspension still installed Cirto original spheres (since 97!), on rear -two spheres were replaced in November 2000, 45000 km.
What You think?
[8)]
In any case, on citroens with hydropneumatics front suspension should be about 2 times stiffer than rear, because weight ratio is also near 2:1 (depending on the engine). On father's GS, for example, front dives 4.5 and rear about 9 cm under my 70 kg, with spheres regassed 3 years ago (but the car covered maybe 30.000 km since).
Some of Xantias I tested had even harder rear suspension than the front. My mechanic said that Xantia rear spheres are not of very good quality (especially 30 bar ones). On the other hand, front spheres 450 ccm (so called 'Xantia type') have multilayer membrane (like in C5) and are much better. So this could be an explanation.
Some of Xantias I tested had even harder rear suspension than the front. My mechanic said that Xantia rear spheres are not of very good quality (especially 30 bar ones). On the other hand, front spheres 450 ccm (so called 'Xantia type') have multilayer membrane (like in C5) and are much better. So this could be an explanation.
About comparing Xantia vs C5, I think that C5 with ordinary hydropneumatic suspension (HA3, not HA3+) should dive almost like Xantia '97 with new spheres (maybe 5-10% less), because weight is not much higher, spheres are similar (front 385 ccm/57 bar, rear 385 ccm/31 bar) and hydraulic cylinders also.
C5 with HA3+ should behave like hydractive Xantia - in hard mode suspension feels rock hard (harder than on conventional car), like the spheres are totally flat.
C5 with HA3+ should behave like hydractive Xantia - in hard mode suspension feels rock hard (harder than on conventional car), like the spheres are totally flat.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mark_l</i>
Hi!
Some additional questions:
3)Are there methods for spheres pressure checking w/o dismantling?
Thanks
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Depends on your definition of dismantling.[:D][:D]
http://www.bx.citroen.org/t05/t05e.html
Alan S[:)]
Hi!
Some additional questions:
3)Are there methods for spheres pressure checking w/o dismantling?
Thanks
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Depends on your definition of dismantling.[:D][:D]
http://www.bx.citroen.org/t05/t05e.html
Alan S[:)]
Talking about non-hydractive suspension, the system on BX and Xantias up to '94 is almost equal, with exception:
- HP pump is different
- front struts are different
From '94 on, different HP pump is fitted (6+2), with separate output for steering, so flow distributor is abandoned, pressure regulator is also different, like in BX without power steering, and there's an anti-sink system, consisting of two anti sink valves and one sphere.
There are also different sphere types, depending on engine and year.
I don't know about any other method of checking the spheres without taking them off, except by measuring the 'dive' under weight. I think this one is good enough, if you know how much the car dives with new spheres.
About tyre pressure, there obviously is some affect on ride quality, but so far I didn't notice any difference between 1.8 and 2.2 bar on my car.
- HP pump is different
- front struts are different
From '94 on, different HP pump is fitted (6+2), with separate output for steering, so flow distributor is abandoned, pressure regulator is also different, like in BX without power steering, and there's an anti-sink system, consisting of two anti sink valves and one sphere.
There are also different sphere types, depending on engine and year.
I don't know about any other method of checking the spheres without taking them off, except by measuring the 'dive' under weight. I think this one is good enough, if you know how much the car dives with new spheres.
About tyre pressure, there obviously is some affect on ride quality, but so far I didn't notice any difference between 1.8 and 2.2 bar on my car.
Look this link (sure You are familiar it).
http://www.kolumbus.fi/anttijp/spheres.htm
I understand, that up to 9 spheres may be on the car , depending of system type.
On my car I counted 6 spheres-4 on wheels, 1 as I understand is the main accumulator (on front surface of the engine) and 1 in the middle of rear beam. What is the last one?
Are the spheres as in para's 4,5,7,8 belongs to hydroactive models only?
May be You know where can I reach full info about my specific car?
Thanks a lot[B)][:(][?][:o)][:D]
http://www.kolumbus.fi/anttijp/spheres.htm
I understand, that up to 9 spheres may be on the car , depending of system type.
On my car I counted 6 spheres-4 on wheels, 1 as I understand is the main accumulator (on front surface of the engine) and 1 in the middle of rear beam. What is the last one?
Are the spheres as in para's 4,5,7,8 belongs to hydroactive models only?
May be You know where can I reach full info about my specific car?
Thanks a lot[B)][:(][?][:o)][:D]
Possible combinations are:
1. GS, BX, Xantia up to '94: spheres 1, 2, 2, 3, 3
2. Xantia from '94 on: spheres 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 6
3. Xantia VSX (with hydractive suspension): 1, 2, 2, 4, 3, 3, 5, 6
4. Xantia Activa: all shown spheres
So, your car have 4 corner spheres (2, 2, 3, 3), accumultor sphere on the pressure regulator on front of the engine (1) and anti-sink sphere in the middle of rear beam.
Spheres for your car are the same as for 1.9 TD. I specified them in the topic "Xantia softer ride possible", and it's also evident from the page "spheres.htm"
You can find an excelent description of all citroen hydraulic sytems in citroen guide.pdf by Zeljko Nastasic (link to that site is found frequently on this forum).
1. GS, BX, Xantia up to '94: spheres 1, 2, 2, 3, 3
2. Xantia from '94 on: spheres 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 6
3. Xantia VSX (with hydractive suspension): 1, 2, 2, 4, 3, 3, 5, 6
4. Xantia Activa: all shown spheres
So, your car have 4 corner spheres (2, 2, 3, 3), accumultor sphere on the pressure regulator on front of the engine (1) and anti-sink sphere in the middle of rear beam.
Spheres for your car are the same as for 1.9 TD. I specified them in the topic "Xantia softer ride possible", and it's also evident from the page "spheres.htm"
You can find an excelent description of all citroen hydraulic sytems in citroen guide.pdf by Zeljko Nastasic (link to that site is found frequently on this forum).
Has anybody experience with spheres of the following manufacturer?
http://www.lizarte.com/textose/esferas_nuevas.html
There is also replacement instructions on the site.
http://www.lizarte.com/textose/esferas_nuevas.html
There is also replacement instructions on the site.