My car has had all its Citroen services at the recommended mileage (current mileage 85k). At the last service both rear spheres where replaced and it drove again like it supose to drive (like a magic carpet). However, 4k miles down the road, the suspension seems to get a bit funny again. The spheres seem to be working but I am not that sure if they do when I drive. Should they have changed all 5 spheres, or are my shocks going?
Any advice appreciated as the car is costing a fortune with the regular services at this mileage (cambelt, backbox, catalic converter, 2 rear spheres, etc.).
Xantia 1.8i desire, 1997, 85k, FCSH
Cheers,
John
Spheres faulty or shocks?
Moderator: RichardW
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Dave Burns
- Posts: 1915
- Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
- x 2
You don't have shocks in the normal sense of the word, the shocks or more precisely the dampers are an integral part of the sphere's.
There should be six spheres on your model but only four are directly responsible for the ride quality.
Maybe one or more have gone bad or have been on the shelf a very long time prior to fitting, the rubber inside them is pourous to the nitrogen gas used to provide the air spring, this is why they need recharging or replacing.
Dave
There should be six spheres on your model but only four are directly responsible for the ride quality.
Maybe one or more have gone bad or have been on the shelf a very long time prior to fitting, the rubber inside them is pourous to the nitrogen gas used to provide the air spring, this is why they need recharging or replacing.
Dave
Thanks for that Dave ...
Learned a bit more about my Xantia! [:D]
I'm not that technical myself, so I suppose I have to visit the Cit garage again and ask them to sort it out. I probably should have had all the spheres replaced in the first place.
They only changed the rear spheres 5k miles ago. When the front go bad aswell does that have effect on the rear suspension aswell? These days the normal motorway ride is fine, but when I go into the town I feel every bump like the feeling if shocks are gone (that was the case with my previous non cit car). A bit annoyed about this, but it might be worth to go back to the garage under quarantee and have the spheres checked out. If needed they can replace the front one, but the cit garage is bloody expense (I think). I read once before that there is a company that replaces all the spheres for £250?
Anyway, I will let them look at it. By the way, where is the 6th sphere????? I thought I had 2 front, 2 back and an antisink? Could be something funny with the antisink though. When I park the car and switch the engine off, the back almost immediately drops .... sigh
Something related to this ... the other day I tried to set the ride to the high one (town drive). I tried it for 100 yds and pulled over to put it back to normal ride. The car was really BOUNCING over the road ... weird [xx(]
Any comments appreciated!
Cheers,
John
Learned a bit more about my Xantia! [:D]
I'm not that technical myself, so I suppose I have to visit the Cit garage again and ask them to sort it out. I probably should have had all the spheres replaced in the first place.
They only changed the rear spheres 5k miles ago. When the front go bad aswell does that have effect on the rear suspension aswell? These days the normal motorway ride is fine, but when I go into the town I feel every bump like the feeling if shocks are gone (that was the case with my previous non cit car). A bit annoyed about this, but it might be worth to go back to the garage under quarantee and have the spheres checked out. If needed they can replace the front one, but the cit garage is bloody expense (I think). I read once before that there is a company that replaces all the spheres for £250?
Anyway, I will let them look at it. By the way, where is the 6th sphere????? I thought I had 2 front, 2 back and an antisink? Could be something funny with the antisink though. When I park the car and switch the engine off, the back almost immediately drops .... sigh
Something related to this ... the other day I tried to set the ride to the high one (town drive). I tried it for 100 yds and pulled over to put it back to normal ride. The car was really BOUNCING over the road ... weird [xx(]
Any comments appreciated!
Cheers,
John
john -
you have 1 sphere each wheel, 1 antisink sphere, and 1 accumulator (central) sphere.
The 4 wheel spheres are obviously used for suspension.
The anti sink sphere is in fact also an accumulator sphere, but exclusively used for the anti sink feature.
The central accumulator sphere, serves 2 main purposes :
- to have a safety spare pressure for the brakes, if you have an engine malfunction during drive. No engine run - no pump run - no pressure kept on.
- to serve as a "damper" i.e. provide a hysteresis for the regulator's in/out cutting of it's pressure regulation valves, which gives the wellknown hydraulic Citroen ticking sound.
If you set the ride height to HIGH the supension cylinders will allow to expand fully untill they reach their rubber bump stops, at the same time compressing the gas in the spheres, leaving the car on rubber as suspension elements alone.
This allows for higher car-body road clearance, passing very unduly roads - at crawling speeds ONLY.
The effect is clearly felt as you were trying to ride a bouncing tennis ball, and is fully normal.
NEVER - I repeat - NEVER fool around with the height setting of the suspension, while at any normal cruise speed [:0]
You tried it - now you know why [B)]
It's clearly stated in your owners handbook also.
I have'nt got a clue on why you're calling the high setting for "town-drive". It's absolutely not suitable for "ANY-drive". Use your normal drive height, and leave it there, while driving.
you have 1 sphere each wheel, 1 antisink sphere, and 1 accumulator (central) sphere.
The 4 wheel spheres are obviously used for suspension.
The anti sink sphere is in fact also an accumulator sphere, but exclusively used for the anti sink feature.
The central accumulator sphere, serves 2 main purposes :
- to have a safety spare pressure for the brakes, if you have an engine malfunction during drive. No engine run - no pump run - no pressure kept on.
- to serve as a "damper" i.e. provide a hysteresis for the regulator's in/out cutting of it's pressure regulation valves, which gives the wellknown hydraulic Citroen ticking sound.
If you set the ride height to HIGH the supension cylinders will allow to expand fully untill they reach their rubber bump stops, at the same time compressing the gas in the spheres, leaving the car on rubber as suspension elements alone.
This allows for higher car-body road clearance, passing very unduly roads - at crawling speeds ONLY.
The effect is clearly felt as you were trying to ride a bouncing tennis ball, and is fully normal.
NEVER - I repeat - NEVER fool around with the height setting of the suspension, while at any normal cruise speed [:0]
You tried it - now you know why [B)]
It's clearly stated in your owners handbook also.
I have'nt got a clue on why you're calling the high setting for "town-drive". It's absolutely not suitable for "ANY-drive". Use your normal drive height, and leave it there, while driving.
I heard a rumour a while ago (I think via the Citroen Car Club) that the severe bounciness of the Xantia suspension when on the second height setting is due to a design fault, Citroen made some sort of miscalculation with the design of the rear suspension apparently.
With the previous BX's and GSA's myself and my family owned it was possible (though not recommended) to drive for quite long distances with the suspension on the second setting, certainly it made the ride softer and bouncier but nothing like the 'rock hard no suspension' feel you get if you try this with a Xantia. All the Xantias I've driven do this to the same degree too.
With the previous BX's and GSA's myself and my family owned it was possible (though not recommended) to drive for quite long distances with the suspension on the second setting, certainly it made the ride softer and bouncier but nothing like the 'rock hard no suspension' feel you get if you try this with a Xantia. All the Xantias I've driven do this to the same degree too.
In the normal driving position, ride height is in the middle between lowest and highest position (-5mm to be correct). So, you have about 8 cm of suspension travel for compression and about 8 cm for extraction (well, a little less on the front, and a little more on the rear - it doesn't matter).
If the linkage is correctly adjusted, raised position is about 4 cm higher, so you have 12 cm for compression and only 4 cm for extraction. So, if you drive in the raised position, suspension arms/struts will be occasionally hitting rebound stops, somewhat affecting the ride comfort, otherwise the ride is not softer or harder than in normal position, because the working pressure in hydraulic cylinders is the same. This position is intended for driving on shorter distances, and with lower speed, over rough road.
If the linkage isn't correctly adjusted, during drive it may happen then one or both axis raise too much and become hard like in third position (Anders explained why).
It's the same story on all 'pump-up' citroens.
If the linkage is correctly adjusted, raised position is about 4 cm higher, so you have 12 cm for compression and only 4 cm for extraction. So, if you drive in the raised position, suspension arms/struts will be occasionally hitting rebound stops, somewhat affecting the ride comfort, otherwise the ride is not softer or harder than in normal position, because the working pressure in hydraulic cylinders is the same. This position is intended for driving on shorter distances, and with lower speed, over rough road.
If the linkage isn't correctly adjusted, during drive it may happen then one or both axis raise too much and become hard like in third position (Anders explained why).
It's the same story on all 'pump-up' citroens.
-
Dave Burns
- Posts: 1915
- Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
- x 2
Sorry to hear of your xantia troubles John, its very annoying when you pay good money to have your car looked after by a Citroen dealer and things still go pear shape.
If the rear end sinking came about at the same time as the rear spheres were replaced, I would suggest this is because they allowed dirt to enter the suspension cylinder, which has now fouled the anti sink valve, this car shouldn't sink for a long long time.
The front spheres don't have any affect on the rear suspension.
If folk on here knew which area you are in, someone will probably know a local independant cit garage that know their stuff, and don't want an arm and a leg for everything they do.
Dave
If the rear end sinking came about at the same time as the rear spheres were replaced, I would suggest this is because they allowed dirt to enter the suspension cylinder, which has now fouled the anti sink valve, this car shouldn't sink for a long long time.
The front spheres don't have any affect on the rear suspension.
If folk on here knew which area you are in, someone will probably know a local independant cit garage that know their stuff, and don't want an arm and a leg for everything they do.
Dave
Alan, yes, I was referring to manual height control adjustment.
On BX and XM, there are brackets, located at ends of control rods, connected to the height lever. In normal driving position, each bracket pointer, connected to H/C linkage, must be somewhere in the middle of the bracket. So, in the normal position, manual height control doesn't interfere with automatic height control, connected to the sway bars, and the system behaves like there's no manual control at all. This linkage is a little different on other models (except C5, of course), but principle is the same.
So, if the ride height in the raised position isn't correct (about 4 cm above normal position), this should be checked and adjusted if necessary, by moving the bracket a little forward or backward.
On BX and XM, there are brackets, located at ends of control rods, connected to the height lever. In normal driving position, each bracket pointer, connected to H/C linkage, must be somewhere in the middle of the bracket. So, in the normal position, manual height control doesn't interfere with automatic height control, connected to the sway bars, and the system behaves like there's no manual control at all. This linkage is a little different on other models (except C5, of course), but principle is the same.
So, if the ride height in the raised position isn't correct (about 4 cm above normal position), this should be checked and adjusted if necessary, by moving the bracket a little forward or backward.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Dave Burns</i>
Sorry to hear of your xantia troubles John, its very annoying when you pay good money to have your car looked after by a Citroen dealer and things still go pear shape.
If the rear end sinking came about at the same time as the rear spheres were replaced, I would suggest this is because they allowed dirt to enter the suspension cylinder, which has now fouled the anti sink valve, this car shouldn't sink for a long long time.
The front spheres don't have any affect on the rear suspension.
If folk on here knew which area you are in, someone will probably know a local independant cit garage that know their stuff, and don't want an arm and a leg for everything they do.
Dave
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Dave,
Yeah, the sink trouble appeared after the new rear spheres were installed by the Cit garage. The car does sink straight away after turning the engine off ... but comes on pretty quick after turning the engine on. I guess you are right they have stuffed something up (Cit garage that is) [:(]
For all the folks on here, I live in Luton ... surely there is somebody around that can help me out for fair value?
Cheers guys [:)]
John
Sorry to hear of your xantia troubles John, its very annoying when you pay good money to have your car looked after by a Citroen dealer and things still go pear shape.
If the rear end sinking came about at the same time as the rear spheres were replaced, I would suggest this is because they allowed dirt to enter the suspension cylinder, which has now fouled the anti sink valve, this car shouldn't sink for a long long time.
The front spheres don't have any affect on the rear suspension.
If folk on here knew which area you are in, someone will probably know a local independant cit garage that know their stuff, and don't want an arm and a leg for everything they do.
Dave
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Dave,
Yeah, the sink trouble appeared after the new rear spheres were installed by the Cit garage. The car does sink straight away after turning the engine off ... but comes on pretty quick after turning the engine on. I guess you are right they have stuffed something up (Cit garage that is) [:(]
For all the folks on here, I live in Luton ... surely there is somebody around that can help me out for fair value?
Cheers guys [:)]
John
Sorry to hear of your troubles..
The only ones I have heard to be good anywhere near Luton are probably a bit too far...
but, FWIW...
Louis Barbour in Great Missenden
Pleiades at Sawtry (between Huntingdon and Peterborough)
There may be Cit independents in Yellow Pages...just keep away from main dealers! Or alternatively try going back and telling them that it is worse than before they did the work.
Try posting on the Xantia group on Yahoo as they may give yet more insight and experience. They may have pages listing Cit independents. Also the XM group (XM-L@yahoogroups.com) may have a page.
www.honestjohn.co.uk has a technical forum with a few Xantia owners, plus lots of contributors who would know the whereabouts of a good Cit indy.
HTH
rg.
The only ones I have heard to be good anywhere near Luton are probably a bit too far...
but, FWIW...
Louis Barbour in Great Missenden
Pleiades at Sawtry (between Huntingdon and Peterborough)
There may be Cit independents in Yellow Pages...just keep away from main dealers! Or alternatively try going back and telling them that it is worse than before they did the work.
Try posting on the Xantia group on Yahoo as they may give yet more insight and experience. They may have pages listing Cit independents. Also the XM group (XM-L@yahoogroups.com) may have a page.
www.honestjohn.co.uk has a technical forum with a few Xantia owners, plus lots of contributors who would know the whereabouts of a good Cit indy.
HTH
rg.
Never heard a bad word about these guys.
Good website that explains it all. Some have reckoned they were too dear but then after having had the job done by them, discovered they got what they paid for; quality service that gave long troublefree motoring and really, that's what you're looking for.
Have never heard anyone say they were dudded by them.
http://www.pleiades.uk.com/
Alan S
Good website that explains it all. Some have reckoned they were too dear but then after having had the job done by them, discovered they got what they paid for; quality service that gave long troublefree motoring and really, that's what you're looking for.
Have never heard anyone say they were dudded by them.
http://www.pleiades.uk.com/
Alan S