Dear forum colleagues,
My first Citroen, a Xantia 1993 bought a couple of months ago, is leaking hydraulic fluid. The leak appears to be from a thin metal pipe, located on top of the front suspension, on the drivers’ side, near or under a bracket that ties the pipe to the car body (that pipe section runs vertically). A mechanic specialised in Citroens wants more than £100 to fix the leak. Unfortunately I can’t really afford that right now, and must try to find a cheaper solution – even if it is just a temporary solution. Could you please advise me if I can fix it myself, and how? I know the fluid reach high pressures, but there must be a way of stopping the leak, or at least reducing it considerably. Perhaps using some rubber seals, and a metal bracket around it? Please note that I can not get under the car (for health reasons). Thank you in advance for any advise.
Cordially,
John
How to mend a leaking hydraulics pipe?
Moderator: RichardW
Have a look at the Andyspares site - I expect they list the real thing for a few pounds ready made up for you to fit. all you will then need is a 9 mm? open ended spanner and a couple of the appropriate seals and after a few happy hours fiddling the thing into place you will have made a proper repair.
I suggest that you disconnect the pump supply pipe from the reservoir and plug it to prevent excessive leakage. You may need to prime the pump on re-assembly - simply pour LHM into the pipe with the engine running and replace it on the reservoir. The regulator circuit is bled by opening the bleed bolt on the front of the regulator and there is no need to bleed the strut - simply raise and lower the car a few times.
As with all work on Citroen hydraulic suspension make sure that the car cannot possibly fall on you when you open the hydraulic circuit. The car should be lowered on the hydraulic lever and the bleed screw opened to ensure the system is properly depressurised before the system is opened.
jeremy
I suggest that you disconnect the pump supply pipe from the reservoir and plug it to prevent excessive leakage. You may need to prime the pump on re-assembly - simply pour LHM into the pipe with the engine running and replace it on the reservoir. The regulator circuit is bled by opening the bleed bolt on the front of the regulator and there is no need to bleed the strut - simply raise and lower the car a few times.
As with all work on Citroen hydraulic suspension make sure that the car cannot possibly fall on you when you open the hydraulic circuit. The car should be lowered on the hydraulic lever and the bleed screw opened to ensure the system is properly depressurised before the system is opened.
jeremy
If you're really skint, you can remove the pipe as per Jeremy's suggestions & have it silver soldered providing it's been worn through & not rusted out.
We did that on a CX many years ago when a pipe was scuffed through with the handbrake cable. It was a "temporary" repair; don't know how long it will last as I think it was silver soldered in 1995 & the car was written off last year when hit from behind.[:D][:D]
Alan S
We did that on a CX many years ago when a pipe was scuffed through with the handbrake cable. It was a "temporary" repair; don't know how long it will last as I think it was silver soldered in 1995 & the car was written off last year when hit from behind.[:D][:D]
Alan S
Dear Alan,
Thank you for the suggestion. You confirm my suspicions that some DIY should be possible.
I’ve just been outside checking the car, and I’ve tried to remove the bracket (“quarter moon”, apparently), to see if I could see the leak. Bumped into a unforeseen problem: the screw is bolted, and the bolt seats in the wheel arch, on top, behind the wheel, in a very difficult place to reach (due to some health problems I can’t get under the car). So it seems that I will have to find the money and pay someone to fix it. It’s a pity that I could not get to the leak. I am sure that there is some way to plug a leak. Even a high pressure one. A rubber coat tightened by a metal ring should be able to do it.
John
Thank you for the suggestion. You confirm my suspicions that some DIY should be possible.
I’ve just been outside checking the car, and I’ve tried to remove the bracket (“quarter moon”, apparently), to see if I could see the leak. Bumped into a unforeseen problem: the screw is bolted, and the bolt seats in the wheel arch, on top, behind the wheel, in a very difficult place to reach (due to some health problems I can’t get under the car). So it seems that I will have to find the money and pay someone to fix it. It’s a pity that I could not get to the leak. I am sure that there is some way to plug a leak. Even a high pressure one. A rubber coat tightened by a metal ring should be able to do it.
John
John
Yes I see from my Andyspares catalogue that they dont do this pipe and that their range is very small. They may well do more on enquiry.
As an alternative try Pleiades - they come very highly recommended by others on this and other boards. I believe they will sell you the pipe you need and from what others are charging for similar pipes I would have thought that about £10 delivered (in UK) was a guide.
http://www.pleiades.uk.com/
Yes I see from my Andyspares catalogue that they dont do this pipe and that their range is very small. They may well do more on enquiry.
As an alternative try Pleiades - they come very highly recommended by others on this and other boards. I believe they will sell you the pipe you need and from what others are charging for similar pipes I would have thought that about £10 delivered (in UK) was a guide.
http://www.pleiades.uk.com/
John,
In all honesty, you will not be able to find anything short of another pipe or fixing by silver soldering the existing pipe that will even come close to holding it; you'll end up tearing your hair out in frustration.
The pump on a Citroen runs at around 2500 psi. The average car tyre uses in the vicinity of 30 psi. To prove my point, screw the valve out of a tyre and try to seal off 30 psi with tyour thumb then think of how almost 100 times that pressure will feel.
Alan S
In all honesty, you will not be able to find anything short of another pipe or fixing by silver soldering the existing pipe that will even come close to holding it; you'll end up tearing your hair out in frustration.
The pump on a Citroen runs at around 2500 psi. The average car tyre uses in the vicinity of 30 psi. To prove my point, screw the valve out of a tyre and try to seal off 30 psi with tyour thumb then think of how almost 100 times that pressure will feel.
Alan S
John -
What you think about (I guess [:o)]) - is the common central heater pipe repair method. This is fine up untill some 5bar (>75psi) with liquid.
Even dedicated repair sets exists for "high" pressure drinkwater piping (up to some 10bar (>150psi))
As AlanS states, any hydraulic Citroen is working with an incredible [:0] high pressure - despite the small pipe diameter used.
AlanS's description on soldering a hydraulic pipe, for "temporary" repair, is in fact a long-lasting repair, if done correctly (NOTE : special knowledge/experience important) :
1) Remove defective pipe
2) cut the pipe where defective, even cut out off the rusty part.
3) clean (rub down) & degrease at least 20mm each pipebit's ends to bare/clean metal
4) prepare a repair bushing which exactly fits over the outer diameter of the original pipe & required repair length
5) rub down the inner surface of the bushing
6) "cut" all mating surfaces with acid, and mate the bits
7) "silver" solder the bits, just like soldering CU-waterpiping.
8) check the pipe is NOT blocked internally by solder (which is a complete redo job)
9) pressure test the pipe for leak and strenght before use
Given the time & effort spent on the above repair, PLUS easy (& cheap) access to ready made spare pipes, it is however NOT recommanded to repair a hydraulic pipe. You'll also have to remove the defective pipe anyway.
Please note, that ready made Citroen hydraulic pipes are available, from aftermarket manufacturers, in STAINLESS STEEL.
Do NOT let a simple, rusty bolt/nut terrorize you to despair [:(!]
Cut the bast... [}:)], and replace it once & for all, using a friendly stainless steel counterpart [8D]
What you think about (I guess [:o)]) - is the common central heater pipe repair method. This is fine up untill some 5bar (>75psi) with liquid.
Even dedicated repair sets exists for "high" pressure drinkwater piping (up to some 10bar (>150psi))
As AlanS states, any hydraulic Citroen is working with an incredible [:0] high pressure - despite the small pipe diameter used.
AlanS's description on soldering a hydraulic pipe, for "temporary" repair, is in fact a long-lasting repair, if done correctly (NOTE : special knowledge/experience important) :
1) Remove defective pipe
2) cut the pipe where defective, even cut out off the rusty part.
3) clean (rub down) & degrease at least 20mm each pipebit's ends to bare/clean metal
4) prepare a repair bushing which exactly fits over the outer diameter of the original pipe & required repair length
5) rub down the inner surface of the bushing
6) "cut" all mating surfaces with acid, and mate the bits
7) "silver" solder the bits, just like soldering CU-waterpiping.
8) check the pipe is NOT blocked internally by solder (which is a complete redo job)
9) pressure test the pipe for leak and strenght before use
Given the time & effort spent on the above repair, PLUS easy (& cheap) access to ready made spare pipes, it is however NOT recommanded to repair a hydraulic pipe. You'll also have to remove the defective pipe anyway.
Please note, that ready made Citroen hydraulic pipes are available, from aftermarket manufacturers, in STAINLESS STEEL.
Do NOT let a simple, rusty bolt/nut terrorize you to despair [:(!]
Cut the bast... [}:)], and replace it once & for all, using a friendly stainless steel counterpart [8D]
Well.
Hydraulic pipes connected to front struts are subjected to pressure about 100 bar, occasionally raising above 200 during the drive. So, it's hard to believe that a kind of rubber coat will do the job (if it's the pipe leaking, not the seal). On the other side, pipe seals are made of some kind of rubber, obviously withstanding the pressure.
Anyway, £100/150 EUR seems to much for changing a part, which costs less than 10 EUR, including a pair of new seals, since it's a 1 hour job.
There's no need to unplug the pump to minimise the LHM leak; when the suspension is depressurised, the connection between the pump and the front strut is cut at 3 hydraulic elements: security valve, anti-sink valve (if fitted) and the height corrector.
Hydraulic pipes connected to front struts are subjected to pressure about 100 bar, occasionally raising above 200 during the drive. So, it's hard to believe that a kind of rubber coat will do the job (if it's the pipe leaking, not the seal). On the other side, pipe seals are made of some kind of rubber, obviously withstanding the pressure.
Anyway, £100/150 EUR seems to much for changing a part, which costs less than 10 EUR, including a pair of new seals, since it's a 1 hour job.
There's no need to unplug the pump to minimise the LHM leak; when the suspension is depressurised, the connection between the pump and the front strut is cut at 3 hydraulic elements: security valve, anti-sink valve (if fitted) and the height corrector.
-
Jon
Dear all,
Thank you all very much for your advises. Since I would not be able to fix the leak myself, I decided to find the money and have it fixed by a professional. The best quote I got from my area of London (NW) was £82 for the labour (circa 120 Euros), and I was told that the part was cheap, just a few pounds. But the cost got much worse when I returned to pick up the car: £140! (circa 210 Euros!). The explanation was that the part’s price was increased by the supplier, to £29 ponds, then VAT, etc…
To be honest, I felt robbed, but could not think of anything to do. I just paid it (with borrowed money!), and confirmed my decision of selling this car as soon as possible and never to buy another Citroen in my life. Actually, from now on, only Japanese cars! Preferably made in Japan! I want RELIABILITY! And some coils on top of my wheels!
But thanks again for all of your time and attention with your advises.
Thank you all very much for your advises. Since I would not be able to fix the leak myself, I decided to find the money and have it fixed by a professional. The best quote I got from my area of London (NW) was £82 for the labour (circa 120 Euros), and I was told that the part was cheap, just a few pounds. But the cost got much worse when I returned to pick up the car: £140! (circa 210 Euros!). The explanation was that the part’s price was increased by the supplier, to £29 ponds, then VAT, etc…
To be honest, I felt robbed, but could not think of anything to do. I just paid it (with borrowed money!), and confirmed my decision of selling this car as soon as possible and never to buy another Citroen in my life. Actually, from now on, only Japanese cars! Preferably made in Japan! I want RELIABILITY! And some coils on top of my wheels!
But thanks again for all of your time and attention with your advises.