long discussion about vibration between 40 & 50 mph

Brigsygtt · Post by **Brigsygtt** » 27 Jul 2009, 17:59

Replacing the o/s shaft will sort the wobble. The cv joint next to the intermediate bearing wears.

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 28 Jul 2009, 02:50

brigsygt,

Ive had the o/s driveshaft out nothing wrong with it no movement at all
and the bearing is fine to. repacked all the joints with new cv grease and put it back in.

car is at pleidies now and Martin is trying to trace the wobble. trust me if I thought the cv joints in the shaft were worn I would have replaced it that's why its gone to the garage for a second opinion. and a new lower O/s wishbone. a new donut rubber engine mount is going in tommorow as the old one is showing signs of wear, putting a bar behind this and moving the engine back and forth doesnt move the gearstick but moving this mount side to side does shake the gearstick, so Brigsygt maybe you were right the first time you mentioned the rubber engine mount that you replaced on that saxo which cured the wobble. with any luck it affects the xantia the same way.

regards.

Nigel.

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 30 Jul 2009, 19:33

Right, the car remained at pleidies for two days and I collected it on the wednesday 29th of July.

Martin replaced the lower offside wishbone with the interfearence fitted rear rubber mount already fitted to the replacement wishbone, Martin tried to source a replacement unit for £45 but the source turned out to be no good and it had to be replaced by a citroen orriginal wishbone with rubber mounts for £75 and £30 fitting charge + vat.

The lower engne mount was knackered and practacally fell out when it was unbolted cost £23 fitting £30 +vat.

Martin road tested the car to see if the wobble had gone and it hadn't, he put the car on axle stands and ran the engine with it in gear but could not replicate the wobble as the engine wasn't under load enough.

he said he stopped each front wheel in turn firstly the offside front wheel and watched the gearstick for similar movent presented when the car is on the road. then he tried stopping the nearside wheel and the gearstick apparently started to wobble slightly.

at the end of the day the best guess was to replace the offside driveshaft even though it was definately not apparent that there was any wear in the the support bearing or the two cv joints. Martin said that he could not say that it was the driveshaft and it was a gamble replacing it to try to find the problem.

Well after all that I replaced the driveshaft today and it solved the wobble issue straight away.

Yes i have spent a fair bit to get this far but my front wheels were buckled badly and needed replacing, the bottom engine mount was knackered anyway and needed pressing into place which I am not tooled up for, and the lower wishbone was a serious cock up on my part not being helped by the Haynes book of lies, In future I shall b e more patient and ask the forum first, I have learnt an expensive lesson this month.

martin @ pleidies is a smashing bloke and his prices are pretty good in my opinion, they are pretty much on a par with my old mobile citroen mechanic, I shall definately be taking my xantia to Pleidies in the future for those difficult jobs that I cant manage owing to disability and illness.

His spheres are £20 each and £5 fitting that beats paying £25 and fitting them yourself, Im going back soon to have my lhm replaced with hydraflush and my spheres all six of them replaced.

I shall also need a new Nearside radius arm bearing done pretty soon if I am to keep the car/money pit. although I havent yet discussed this with Martin.

Incidentially my old so called specalist mechanic never used hydraflush he simply cleaned out the Lhm resoviour and replaced the Lhm with new fluid which is no good at all.

I am one happy fella, I can at least drive my xantia properly again without the front end feeling like I'm sitting on a speeding jelly.

Thank you tom everyone for your input in this thread it has been very interesting, thank you Brigsygt for your comments and bringing to my attention the possability of the donut engine mount being knackered and also the driveshaft by PM.

It just goes to show that the tinest amount of movement in a driveshaft undetectable to even close inspection by myself or a qualified mechanic can make us unsure that it is definately the source of the problem.

Thank You everyone else that advised me of my error in fitting the lower wishbone to the rear rubber mount, by all accounts I could be driving a pretty dangerous motor if it were not for your input in this thread.

now we know what is causing the wobble on my fathers VSX although it is nowhere as bad as mine was.

The replacement shaft came from Auto Express and cost £86.42 including vat. there where cheaper options by around a fiver but they all took longer to come up with the goods ie not next day.

many thanks to all concerned.

best wishes Nigel.

Post by **CitroJim** » 30 Jul 2009, 19:40

Great stuff Nigel

Pleased it is now all sorted out!

I completely agree about Pleiades, Martin is one top bloke and comes highly recommended.

Lucky is the person who lives near enough to Sawtry to use Martin as their local garage...

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 30 Jul 2009, 19:48

jim, at least it will stop me publishing my daft mistakes, now its all sorted out.

if you do go up to pleidies though don't forget your donation of chocky biscuits Martin says it makes the time go faster thats a significant cost saver in labour charges for a simple bit of consideration...lol.

the postcode if you need shatt Naff to take you down all of the old dirt tracks like I did is- PE28 5SB. 17 miles east of Kettering Northants.

regards Nigel

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 30 Jul 2009, 19:52

hi Nigel

im glad you are sorted for now,

Nigel wrote
"cost £23 fitting £30 +vat."

was that for the coplete mountting including the houseing, as the bush on its own is around 6 quid from GSF,

regarding the drive shaft i have seen the inner half of these drive shafts to be bent in the past,

i put this down to someone replaceing a clutch without pulling the complete O/S drive shaft fully out,

so once the gear box is unbolted it puts to much weight onto the inner half of the shaft, resultting in it getting bent

regards malcolm

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 30 Jul 2009, 20:12

Malcom,

it was the rubber bush on its own but
If its cheaper from GSF so be it I would have had to drive 50miles round trip including a fair bit of town driving start stop start stop, and diesel is 103.99 a litre here now, approaching £5 a gallon. chock up the car put it on axle stands in the pouring rain and believe me it has rained evry bloomin day for three weeks up here well I think we got one day off last week actually.

much easier to let Martin sort it out less stressful and brilliant service.

I did manage to do the shaft today with some help but I shall be paying for it in pain for the next three weeks.

being to ill some times to cope with the heavier work I am very happy to have someone I can rely on to do it for me withoiut quibbling over a few quid, besides right now is a good time to be supporting local bussinesses the goverment is doing precious little to help them.

a note on the clutch, mine was replaced 33,000 miles ago and the gear box was completely removed from the car.
the driveshaft hasnt wobbled in all that time until recently.

I think the buckled wheels I was using heavily laden with lots of lead weights damaged the lower wishbone rear rubber mount which in turn knackered the Off side driveshaft CV joint where it enterd the back of the O/s Hub. because the bearing on the shaft was fine and had no play in it at all.
I reckon this in turn wobbling so violently damaged the lower engine mount (donut). it was shaking the engine side to side.

in fact if i had not gone to Pleidies I would still have a lower wishbone improperly fitted because getting the rear rubber mount past the anti roll bar requires quite a bit of fiddling when it is already fitted to the wishbone.

I would not know that the lower engine moiunt rubber was about to give up the ghost and martin showed me the old one which was barely hanging on at all.

Now fitting a new driveshaft to a car with so many issues might have been pointless.

Im not going to let anybody knock the stuffing out of the excellent service and help i recieved from pleidies I am very happy with the results.
it was worth the extra £14 any day of the week. and my experience thus far with GSF is not a posative one esspecially as i bought a brake caliper tool recommended as the correct one for my car and yet it doesnt fit my caliper pistons.

regards Nigel

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 30 Jul 2009, 22:48

i do agree Martin has a lot of knowledge and also imprested with his hydraulic component service's,

and at the end of the day its all about haveing a very happy customer,

so if its helped you all well and good, and i am very pleased you are sorted,

at what ever the cost,

even still GSF do a mail order service,

if it makes you feel any better my local GSF seem to have a couldant care less attitude, so i know were your comming from

all the best

regards malcolm

Brigsygtt · Post by **Brigsygtt** » 31 Jul 2009, 10:56

Im not going to say i told you the o/s shaft was at fault

I only found minor wear in the cup on my shaft but enough to cause a fault. The renault shafts do exactly the same, has happened to me a few times.

Good to hear you have got it sorted though.

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 31 Jul 2009, 11:18

Thanks Brigsygt,
But if I had not gone to the garage I would have just replaced the shaft and missed the rear rubber mount on the lower wishbone, not replaced the lower engine mount which had ended its days of usefullnes and possiably have damaged my new shaft, so I think Ive gained a better maintained car through all of this, even if you did think I told you so it doesnt really fit the situation in hand because there were so many other componants that could have been causing this wobble that have now be repaired.

regards Nigel

And Malcom,

How is it going to make me feel better if your local GSF are less caring? like I said before I'm not going to let anyone knock the stuffing out of my experience with Pleidies I am very happy to have the full driving experience back again. without the jelly wobble of the front end.

you can get a lot worse service in other places around here, on the A5 is a french car breakers, if you get the lad on the end of the phone who cant read and write and you dont know he cant read and write, then ask him to write down a list of parts you require, which they strip out for you and have waiting to collect, he'll get quite stroppy with you on the phone and frustraited because he's illiterate.

Gsf In peterborough which are closest to Pleidies couldnt get the part until the next day, which would have meant my xantia staying at the garage for another day.

if you ever visit pleidies you will see that space is short, in order to get a quicker turn around Martin sourced the part where he could get it quickest
which is good service. and he does telephone you to let you know what the prices are and see if you are happy with the price.

all this whatever the cost is a bit flipant and pointless, how far will £14 in cash get you these days, three gallons of fuel Not quite, Not even a weeks shopping unless your living on bread and pot noodles.(when I first left home)
it wont even pay the phone bill.

Gsf couldn't give me any specialist knowledge shared in coversation and time to explain exacly why something is not quite right.

I am returnning in a couple of weeks to have the spheres done which apparently came from GSF and are supplied and fitted for £25 each.
then probably for the first time ever Hydraflush will go in to clean out the system.

Another job I ned doing is my N/s rear adius arm bearing is starting to go home with the old classic cambering of the wheel.

I remember my old mobile mechanic charging similar prices but then you would pay a premium for someone comming to your home to do the work.

on this occassion Knowledge is power and if ive got to pay another £14 for that so be it.

(all the mechanics are out there now rubbing there hands together thinking I'll add £14 to my bill)..

I telephoned Martin this morning to let him know that it definately was the Drive shaft, now he has a test for it, as I said above front end of car on axle stands, run engine in gear wheels spinning, stop each front wheel in turn and look for gear stick wobble from side to side, it may only be slight but the wheel that is still spinning will be the faulty driveshaft side if the gearstick is shaking side to side. That diagnosis was worth £14 alone, it would save you spending £85 on a shaft wouldnt it?

regards Nigel.

addo · Post by **addo** » 31 Jul 2009, 11:32

It's good to see things looking up.

If Martin is anything like the true experts here, there'll probably be a little cost stress as a bunch of small issues are addressed, that haven't previously been set right in the past. Like the Hydraurincage, for example.

Persevere past this cost squeeze, and the net result is a longer-lasting, more dependable car.

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 31 Jul 2009, 11:53

addo,

at last a 100% posative thinker. $\:D/$ although the term Hydraurinecage has lost me now.

regards Nigel.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 31 Jul 2009, 12:39

falling-out-with-my-car wrote:addo,

at last a 100% posative thinker. $\:D/$ although the term Hydraurinecage has lost me now.

regards Nigel.

It's the official name for hydroflush.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 31 Jul 2009, 13:37

Nigel
i was not trying to knock Martin/yourself or your experiance you have had to go through,

if you read all of my last post you will see i regard Martin very highly,

and i have knowen of Martin for many years, as a citroen service agent i work for in the early 80ty's (H G Havaux on the A21 near Hastings) used to use him a lot

all that rearly matters in this case is you are sorted and are happy with what you were charged

regards malcolm

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 31 Jul 2009, 15:21

Malcom,

fair doos mate.

Xac,

ahh its translated into English Now......cheers Geeze, Hydra-URINE-cage did have me a little confused I thought I had an onboard toilet. I thought blimey Ive never emptied that, let alone tried to fill it.

regards Nigel.