Fitting BX speres to the xantia front end.

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Mandrake
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Post by Mandrake »

davidc wrote:Just looking at this thread perhaps someone can advise. My Estate rides like a truck yet have regassed spheres, good rear arms, new accumalator and overhauled regulator etc but still rough as. Today in desperation I checked the sphere numbers and found they aren't on the sphere chart mentioned here! The numbers are front - 96199318 rear 96239028. All are chevron stamped. Anyone know the story behind these numbers?
cheers
David
Hi David,

Check my sphere charts here:

http://homepages.igrin.co.nz/simon/imag ... a_spheres/

These are the Citroen part numbers, and both your spheres are listed here on page 4, and they are the correct type numbers.

Therefore poor ride would be the condition of the spheres, or something else in the suspension.

Is it only the front or rear or both which is riding poorly ? Can you describe in what way the ride is poor ? (Bouncy, or wallowy, or harsh ?)

If you let the car lift to normal ride height and then press down on the rear bumper are you able to press the suspension down to the bumps stops very easily ? A weight as little as 20kg should be able to bottom the suspension. (Before it corrects for the load)

The front will feel roughly twice as stiff but you should still be able to press it most of the way down by pushing on the front bumper with two hands or sitting on the front with the bonnet open.

Is the ride height in fact correct ? For a quick and rough check of the ride height check here:

http://homepages.igrin.co.nz/simon/imag ... height.jpg

If the ride height is more than about 15mm out either way it will certainly contribute to a poor ride, especially at the rear and especially if it's in the too low direction. (It will hit the bump stops a lot especially at the rear when accelerating)

Does both the front and rear correct accurately to changes in load ? If you get an assistant to sit on the boot and bonnet tray (bonnet open) and you measure the ride height before they sit on it then after it has corrected for their weight, and then after it has corrected after they got off, and it should be consistently within +/- 10mm of the same height after each time it has made a correction.

Regards,
Simon
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Post by davidc »

Mandrake
Firstly thank you for answering the sphere numbers question (and all the other posters too). Now that I can confirm the right ones are screwed on the car and hopefully still with some gas in 'em since being recharged a few months ago through CCC NSW resolves that mystery.
The one thing I have noticed is the height selector doesn't match exactly the normal ride mark, being on low side by about 2-3cm but assumed that was just a 'factory' thing. The ride is harsh and unpleasant, being able to compare to my other cit a '94 Xantia sedan which is smooth and supple in comparison. I won't be able do the checks till the weekend and will report findings. Actually hope to find something wrong in that area as everything else seems to be ok as previously stated, ie new accumulator, o'hauled regulator, checked rear arms, correct and regassed spheres as well normal ball joint checks of the front end.
cheers
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Post by davidc »

Well managed tonight to do the simple bounce test (why didn't I do this a while ago grrr) and...the front end was good BUT the back was rock hard with only a few centimetres of movement. So is that the rear HC or something else?
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Post by addo »

I'd say the rear height corrector linkage is jammed, or has been misadjusted.

Don't adjust the clamp onto the rear antiroll bar until you have satisfied yourself it's either been tampered with before or has visibly rotated.
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Post by xantia_v6 »

It would seem much more likely that it is a rear sphere lost pressure or ruptured.
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Post by Stempy »

Or a non functional electro valve if it is HA.
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Post by Mandrake »

Good point Stempy,

Somehow I had got it in my head that it was an SX, but that's the other car...

So what spec is the Estate David ? Is it an SX, or is it a VSX/Exclusive ? If the latter, that adds a few more possibilities into the equation, and also means the bounce test must be done with the engine idling to be valid.

The first thing to check is the ride height, if the height is significantly out you need to look at the height corrector adjustment/lubrication.

If the height is correct, then it's most likely the regassed spheres are duff, OR, if your car has Hydractive 2 (VSX or Exclusive spec) there is another possibility.

A Hydractive 2 car has THREE spheres at the front and THREE at the back that are directly involved in the ride quality, whereas an SX only has two in each case.

If it is a VSX/Exclusive, is it possible that they regassed the two strut spheres but did NOT regass the third hydractive sphere ? This is a sphere in front of and to the right of the spare wheel carrier - it is screwed onto a large block with two thick pipes coming out of it at right angles to the sphere.

For some reason this sphere gets forgotten about a lot, (probably by people familiar with older Citroens) and it is very likely the sphere is extremely low in gas or internally ruptured, this will give you a very stiff ride at the rear. If this sphere does exist on your car it should probably be replaced as it is most likely too far gone for regassing.

This one sphere has a LARGE effect on the softness of the ride at the rear, more so than the other two spheres. When I first got my Xantia this sphere was ruptured and the ride at the rear was very stiff.

Until we know for sure what spec your car is it's hard to know for sure if this applies though. If it is only an SX spec car and the ride height is correct I would be fingering the regassed spheres.

Regards,
Simon
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Post by davidc »

Unfortunately not VSX :cry: Dont think we got any down here. So its either dead sphere(s) or HC. The harshenss of ride and no give in the "push test" would have to point to 2 dead spheres given my other car had one dead sphere a few weeks in the other car and the ride was ok in comparison. It would be a unusual coincidence to have 2 dead regassed spheres. Chris, what do I need to do if it is the corrector (after confirming height first of course).
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Post by davidc »

correction - I meant no VSX wagons came to Aus
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Post by citronut »

i belive if you H/C linkage's are sized the only way to fix them long term, is remove from the car, then unbolt the hight corector from the bracket, then keep soaking and working both of the moveing/not turrets untill the are very free to move without any resistance at all,

then give it all a good greaseing and stick it back together,

with them attatched to the car you cant move them fare enough to free them completly

regards malcolm
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Post by Mandrake »

Hi Malcom,

It looks like David is in Australia, and down here in NZ and Australia we don't really get any rust problems with Xantia's, (no salting of the roads, and generally hotter drier weather) I've not heard of any Xantia's with siezed or rusty height corrector linkages here.

Same with strut tops - we don't get rusty strut tops but instead the rubber block perishes eventually.

David - if you are in Australia, are you a member of http://www.aussiefrogs.com ? There are lots of helpful people on there who can point you in the right direction for Citroen parts/repairs in Australia or otherwise be of assistance.

Regards,
Simon
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Post by davidc »

Rear suspension sorted - replaced the regassed (dead) spheres with 2 new ones ($$$)!. Thanks for great advice. Apologies Nigel for hijacking your thread.
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Post by dnsey »

I have in the past used 'flat' front spheres on the rear, giving a softer, less damped, but more comfortable ride at zero cost. When I say flat, of course, I mean that the pressure was low enough to warrant replacement, and therefore a bit higher than that of standard rears.
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Post by CitroJim »

dnsey wrote:I mean that the pressure was low enough to warrant replacement, and therefore a bit higher than that of standard rears.
That's a good tip! If you have a pressure tester you can often select spheres that are not serviceable in their proper role but are OK in another.

A good example is a half-good accumulator. It works a treat as a rear centre hydractive sphere :)
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Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

No probs David these forums are here to solve all of our glitches.

regards Nigel.

ps glad youve got it sorted anyway, think I shall try BXD 1.9 td estate spheres on my Xantia estate.
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