Antifreeze

Unread post by **myglaren** » 05 Jul 2009, 22:04

We all recognize that to replace a Xantia, and many other models, heater matrix is hardly a walk in the park and they generally choose the most innopotune moment to pack up. Mine flooded the car with boiling water just as I was about to leave for a gig in Birmingham, some 220 miles. Had to do it in an ancient mini in the end.

I recently found this article, aimed at SAAB owners but I am convinced that it applies to any make of car.

Anything that postpones or prevents the need to replace the heater matrix is a godsend in my book but it also appears to have a good deal of other benificial effects - not least apparently prolonging the life of the head gasket.

It may be expensive stuff but if it does as the guy seems to think it does then it is very cheap at the price.

Unread post by **Paul-R** » 07 Jul 2009, 12:05

I found his post to ramble a bit and he makes his points so badly that sometimes I wasn't sure what he was getting at.

Anyway, I have seen a post elsewhere which gives information on the different types of anti-freeze available; to sum up:

red antifreeze has a 5 yr life
green has a 3 year life
blue has a 2 year life

I think the blue/green distinction is a bit vague and possibly they can be intermixed but red DEFINITELY can't be mixed with either of the other two as its inhibitors are based on different chemistry and will actually react badly causing deposits which can block galleys and matrices up. Not good!

He doesn't say what colour this Merc A/F is but perhaps he's talking about the red stuff?

Unread post by **Paul-R** » 07 Jul 2009, 12:35

I found this on the Honest John website http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ ... tm?t=19701 and am shamelessly copying it with full acknowledgement

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For many years, since the demise of Methanol based antifreeze that was traditionally only added just before winter, blue/green or yellow Monoethylene Glycol (MEG) has been the mainstay of the coolant market. However Ford vehicles since 08/98 have been filled with coolant combining Monoethylene glycol with Organic Additive Technology (OAT) corrosion inhibitors.

There are important differences between standard MEG and MEG with OAT. It does not contain silicates, nitrates, nitrites, borates, phosphates or amines so that:
· Without silicates, silicate gel or "green goo" does not form.
· By eliminating phosphates, hard water scale is reduced.
· Without silicates, phosphates, nitrates, nitrites and borates, abrasive dissolved acids are greatly reduced thereby diminishing water pump seal failures.
· Without amines and nitrites, there is no potential formation of nitrosamines.
All of this results in a considerably longer life span, whilst providing improved protection of all cooling system metals, including aluminium. Benefits over conventional silicate based coolants are:
· Improved water pump life due to reduced water pump seal wear.
· Fewer abrasive dissolved solids.
· Reduced hard water scale.
· Virtually no deterioration of heat transfer capacity during service life.
· Excellent protection against high temperature and pitting corrosion.
· No silicate gel formation during storage or use.
· Effective long-term corrosion protection for aluminium, brass, cast iron, steel, solder and copper alloys.
· Long effective service life of up to 10 years or 150,000 miles.

The two types of coolant should not be mixed. Vehicles filled with MEG will have coolant coloured blue, green or yellow. MEG with OAT additives will have coolant coloured Orange (Ford) or red.

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One thing that no-one seems to have mentioned so far is MPG (Mono Propylene Glycol) based antifreezes. Unlike MEG, MPG is not poisonous
(which is why it's used in solar water heating systems in case there's a leak).

There's no chemical reason not to mix MEG and MPG but, because they have different specific gravities (SG), you won't know what concentration of antifreeze you have in your system using a hydrometer. Even if you have uncontaminated MPG you'll need a different hydrometer because of the different SG.

Presumably one can get MPG based antifreeze in 2 and 5 year variations?

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 30 Dec 2009, 12:22

I prooved the Antifreeze theroy to myself a few years ago!

Firstly in my H 1991 BX TZD Turbo, I bought it with a small 121k on the clock, and ran it with BLUE water in it!

She got to 185k when the Cold start in the Bosch pump started playing up. So along came my first Xantia, 1993 L reg, TD SX Sinker, Boght with about the same milage on it as the BX 121k or so, and again ran with Blue water (IE: More then enough anti freeze) and never put a matrix in it, and that one ran to 200k without me needing to do the head or matrix..

My current girl unfortunally was a little higher then the other two at 181k, and unfortunally, she has needed a MAtrix just after getting her, but the head had already been done in the past with a Laminated replacement. Again, Im keeping the mixture ultra strong, shes now on 220k the head and heater is fine, I got warmth comming through even before the needle has touched the 60 on the guage, but I wonder how long the matrix will go on for.

Paul

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 30 Dec 2009, 17:11

Some newer Citroens use a gell rather than the traditional collent, so always check which is suitable for your car.

The HDis are amasing for producing heat quickly, there is heat coming from the vents well before the temp needle even moves.

deian · Unread post by **deian** » 30 Dec 2009, 18:23

This is why:

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=29073

Otherwise they wouldn't be!

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 30 Dec 2009, 18:44

Im pretty sure every HDi doesnt have a diesel pre-heater though? I thought only the exclusive Xantia HDis had?

XantiaMan · Unread post by **XantiaMan** » 30 Dec 2009, 18:54

Anyone foresee any problems with me refilling my Activa with the Ford stuff? My Transit unsurprisingly runs it, and i could get it cheap from work.

Kowalski · Unread post by **Kowalski** » 30 Dec 2009, 19:12

XantiaMan583 wrote:Anyone foresee any problems with me refilling my Activa with the Ford stuff? My Transit unsurprisingly runs it, and i could get it cheap from work.

The newer coolants (red, green, orange etc) aren't compatable with the older blue coolants. If you mix the two, you can make gunge, so if you want to use Ford coolant, drain the system, flush with water drain again and finally fill to make sure you're not mixing new with old.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 30 Dec 2009, 19:16

Paul, just a note of caution about running very strong mixes of antifreeze.

The blue stuff (ethylene glycol based) will not be so efficient at heat transfer in high concentrations as ethylene glycol is not a good conductor of heat. It's ok up to 50/50 but go much above that and you could run into snags.

I run 40/60 (ish) in mine as I'm also a firm believer that keeping good coolant in is the secret to long engine and matrix life...

Not sure if this holds good for the new-fangled multi-coloured stuff.

spider · Unread post by **spider** » 05 Jan 2010, 16:15

I've always just used the green type (Peugeot: 9735E8) , although I think it might have changed codes or been discontinued (not sure but I think its more a blueish colour now and a different number)

I don't like the "long life" reddish stuff personally.

I had to change mine a couple of months ago due to a hose, I used the blue stuff from a factors that time simply as when I called in Citroen as I was going past and asked for the green E8 stuff (I realised it might of had a slightly different part number) the guy on the counter said they did not have any

and he knew what stuff I meant too.

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