C5 Suspension Supports

[fred1]

Hi,

Just do a search on "C5-L" using Yahoo for preference.

[boristhespie]

I've passed 2 MOTS with it banging and I have one this week so fingers crossed. Have to say you guys are so much more positive than the garages. You bring me back to earth.

I got told today the arm costs 450 quid and the bearing kit (ordered seperately) 87 quid.

Have thought about changing even if arm worn. Can be any worse.

Thnaks for the reassurance guys.

[boristhespie]

Could this be done by myself with the aid of an ex mechanic, abeit one who hasn't sone much with cars for years.

Just had a rejection from one garage who said they wont do it because it is a nightmare.

So could I do this myself with supervision? Is that realistic?

Do I have to worry about torque for calipers and about reseting these (wind this way and that) and the brakes?

Also avoiding need to reprogramme suspension.

[cachaciero]

To replace rear trailing arm bearings on a C5 without interfering with the hydraulics.
This works by disconnecting the link between the anti roll barand the rear height corrector. The height corrector is left at the position it would be at if the car were at full height. The engine is then started and the lowest suspension height position is selected using the centre console buttons. switch off the ignition. The system allows all the LDS fluid to return from theresr suspension to the reservoir.
1.Loosen the rear wheel studs slightly.
2.Jack the rear of the car and support the car on axle stands or raise the car on a lift leaving the rear wheels hanging.
3.Disconnect the height corrector link ball joint at the anti roll bar end by levering it off. Make sure that the height corrector remains at the position it was at while it was still connected. If it is marked with a tippex pen it will be easier to know the position (this is to fool the suspension computer)

4.Start the car and use the centre console buttons to select the LOWEST suspension position. when the lowest position shows on the dash stop the engine again and switch off the ignition.
5. Lower the car to the ground or jack up the rear wheels. This will force all the fluid out of the suspension cylinders and back to the reservoir.
6. Disconnect the Battery. (prevents fluid being pumped back into the rear suspension)
7.Raise the car again. There should be no pressure left in the rear suspensions and it should be possible to lift up the rear wheels without resistance.

With respect, while this procedure for depressurizing the suspension may work, although I have some reservations, it's a little complicated, far easier just to put it on low suspension switch of the ignition disconnect the battery and open the depressurisation screw. (even easier with access to a Lexia just select depressurisation)

Cachaciero

[boristhespie]

First of all Could I realistically do this replacement myself?

IF so where is is depressurisation screw and what would be required to repressurise?

[cachaciero]

Could this be done by myself with the aid of an ex mechanic, abeit one who hasn't sone much with cars for years.

Just had a rejection from one garage who said they wont do it because it is a nightmare.

So could I do this myself with supervision? Is that realistic?

Do I have to worry about torque for calipers and about reseting these (wind this way and that) and the brakes?

Also avoiding need to reprogramme suspension.

The question that needs to be asked is can this be done by anyone at home?

The answer is done, yes by a few but done properly? only I would suggest by a very very few.

The new bearings when fitted have to be correctly pre-loaded and shimmed if they are going to last anytime, to do this properly means having the suspension arm on the bench.

So the brake calipers have to be removed as does the Anti Skid sensor both of these items can pose sever problems, there have been several posts on rear caliper problems so references shouldn't be hard to find.

Having got the arm on the bench the old bearings and spacers have to be removed Citroen have a range of special tools to extract these items without causing collateral damage, a home mechanic would have to find solution to the lack of these tools, not I feel insurmountable but will certainly require a degree of time and expense depending on what's available to the individual concerned.

The Citroen service docs make reference to checking the arms for corrosion on bearing surfaces so I guess an unusable arm is a real possibility.

Refitting the bearings also requires special tools again not I feel beyond the ability of a serious home mechanic to find solutions to the lack of these tools but again will probably require time and some money.

The biggest stumbling block is calculating the preload and shim sizes required to get the correct preload this requires a dial gauge and vernier calipers etc.and of course shims.
Getting this right is critical to the life of the bearings and silent running of the rear arms, they are taper roller bearings, too tight results in early demise of the bearing too slack and the arm will rock on the bearings with resultant bangs.
Somebody with a lot of experience may be able get it right by feel but many won't.

So the decision is yours, however before you make it I would strongly suggest that you go out on E-Bay and buy yourself a bootleg copy of the Citroen EPC the latest ones have all the Cit breakdown procedures for most things on the C5 including overhaul of the rear suspension.

Cachaciero

[boristhespie]

HMMMM!

[svesey]

With respect, while this procedure for depressurizing the suspension may work, although I have some reservations, it's a little complicated, far easier just to put it on low suspension switch of the ignition disconnect the battery and open the depressurisation screw. (even easier with access to a Lexia just select depressurisation) "

The system works. No fuid is wasted. Nothing extra has to be undone or disconnected over and above what has to be got out of the way to remove the arms. Its more difficult to describe the method than to carry it out.
Even if you have the lexia dont bother turning it on.
This exact trailing arm setup with the same bearings is in use for at least 30 years e.g. Peugeot 305 van & estate 1978 to 1991. As a rule the replacement bearings last longer than the original. Good lubrication being the key. Dont spare the grease or better still use a thick gooey mix of grease and gearoil. I have never seen an unrepairable arm.
One more thing: the engine must be running to change the susbension height on th C5. Once the new setting shows on the dash the engine can be stopped. The suspension will continue to fall or rise as requested.

Excellent link to a previous topic posted above in this thread by CTR showing the job step by step in pictures

[boristhespie]

And all the other bumf about removing things. Sounds very technical.

[boristhespie]

Car passed its MOT today!!!!!! Cant' believe it.


However on a worrying note after all the hauling and moving of the last two weeks the noise is now of a grinding variety. Even on flat road it makes banging noises and when getting in and out of the car it scratches as the suspension goes up.

[h2ocooler]

Have YOU jacked the car up with the suspension on normal (using a trolly jack) and tried to move the rear arm (up, down & side to side) if it has just passed an MOT then there can be no play in the arm or it would fail, the cars i have replaced the trailing arm bearing on all had major play in them but none had damage to the arm.
I would have thought to damage the arm the bearings would have to be so bad that it would show, either in tyre wear or on the MOT.
I have not done a C5 arm but BX's & Xantia ones i have done, not really rocket science but just awkward getting some of the bolts out.
What speed does it start making the noise at? if it is low enough get someone to walk/run/cycle along side in a car park to see if they can pinpoint where it is coming from before letting a garage loose on it.

Get a friend to put their hand (nowhere where there are moving parts) on the arm when you are sitting in the car then get out to see if they can feel the bang or scratch, it might NOT be the bearing, sounds a bit like a stiff RAM to me.

From what i can make out with the C5 suspension system as long as you can get the system to low as in svesey post there should be no reason to remove the pressure from it, you only need to get the Ram out of the arm to remove the arm.
Get your mate the Ex mechanic to have a look with you, Im sure that even if he has been out of the game for a while you will do it. Too many people are scared stiff of Citroens because of the hydraulics but the basic mechanics are similar to alot of cars.
Have a go, what have you got to lose, if you cant do it then put it back together and let the garage fix it, if you do it yourself then treat yourself to some tools and a manual then tackle a few other jobs.....

Rob

[boristhespie]

Thanks you are ver encouraging. T

The garage that have had it in recently said they "think" it is coming from the arm bearings area but that they need to open it up to be certain. The other garage couldn't say but think it could be than and the other 6 times they havent been able to find it.

It started off when going into compression a bang. Then over speed bumps, with sometimes a metalic clang.

Bow it still has these but has also a light metalic clack clack or clattering at low speeds and one even good roads now. The creeeeeek comes in now, when getting in and out of the the car even and when the suspension goes up and down at the left rear nearside wheel.

A sort of stiff turning like a metalic taking of the cork out a wine bottle only lower. The rattle of the car is very obvious and everyone looks as we approach and go by.

You can feel the banging through the floor in the car, Particular at the back nearslide. Would I feel a gind if I move the arm up and down?

Do I need to do anything to the suspension to be able to move it up and down.

What is the RAM?


There was no play in the wheel as I watched.

[fred1]

Hi,

The symptoms and progression you describe are exactly those of my C5 up to changing its rear arm bearings.

John

[myglaren]

The Rams are the hydraulic rams that allow the car to maintain a constant and level ride height and to be able to raise and lower the body as desired.

There are some pictures but they are copyright protected. Scroll down a bit.

[boristhespie]

Fixed. £287 from French Vehicle Services. I had cancelled due to finances but new pay month and well it's fixed. Courteous and no nonsense which I like. The bearings were buggered but as you guys said, no damage to the arms. The silence driving home was wierd.

I was soo stressed re this. Three years, £250 each time for 2 new antirollbars, £65 just to look and other hundreds in the course of NOT finding anything, I will never visit the dealers around here again.

Useless and quite frankly if small garages can fix it with no hassle, without putting the wind up me and even suggesting I may need a new car, then I don't want to deal with these geezers again.

French Vehicle Services, Kinglassie, did it no hassle and with lots of people there when I went to get me car they are obviously well recommended in the area. Thanks guys.

Pity that area is Glenrothes. Bloody had to spend a day hanging about there. Oh dear. Oh dear. But at least france here I come.

Next servicing the car myself with these bits avoiding £350 cost for a normal 12000 mile services quoted by dealers (!!!!!) and then the door handle which broke again.