1.9TD Xantia engine running issues

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Post by Peter.N. »

Is this just a steady vibration or does it feel as though the power is down on one cylinder? If the former, it may just be that its ticking over at the wrong speed. If its missing slightly on one cylinder it could be an out of spec injector or a worn pump if its done a high mileage. The timing being out will not usually make it tickover unevenly, it will either knock if to advanced, or run very quietly and smoke if retarded.

And Yes Jim, I still think the best way is by ear. :D
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Post by firstrebel »

At cold start there is a smooth tickover reading 1000rpm, but when it has warmed up the uneven tickover is steady, if that makes sense; it is not a cough and splutter as with a misfire. I can only compare it with my old Volvo if the timing is out - a steady but gentle rocking. Richard checked the rpm on his diagnostic box recently so it is not the tacho misreading.

The gentle but obvious kangarooing on deceleration is something you would expect if the rpm was too low for the road speed/gear. But 40mph in 3rd gear is odd.

Thanks for all the comments.

Bob
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Post by G4EIY »

If after all that checking suggested, and you get no change.

Then it may be low compression on one cylinder. May be piston rings or valve seat recession.

This means that all the valve clearance has decreased to zero.

Check valve clearances.

Disable the diesel stop solenoid on the pump, and crank the engine over, you should get an even rhythm.

Good luck
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Post by MikeT »

Peter.N. wrote:The timing being out will not usually make it tickover unevenly, it will either knock if to advanced, or run very quietly and smoke if retarded.
Noted! Thanks for that Peter.
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Post by Peter.N. »

When it starts ticking over unevenly, spray a quantity of water on the pump to cool it down, if that stops it - you have the answer. One of my XMs does this and I think its either the pump or an injector but its not bad enough for me to do anything about. It wont be valve clearances on the 2.1 as it has hydraulic tappets - but it could be on yours, that will show up as low compression on one cylinder, but only when hot. Its not to difficult to check valve clearances so that might be the first thing to do.
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Post by firstrebel »

The damper is OK but not had time to check anything else. I've just done over 600 miles of motorway and it was sluggish. With 3 people on board keeping it at 70/75 needed the foot on the floor.

If anyone knows the M40 northbound from Beaconsfield there is a long sweeping 'uphill' section. I had to change down to 4th and with the foot to the floor struggled at 65mph. If the gradient had continued I suspect I would have lost more speed. It is not excessively steep and I was surprised how poorly it performed.

Bob
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Post by firstrebel »

I've not had time to do any work on this, not that I know much about these engines so it might have to go to a garage, but it has recently developed another 'issue'.

Accelerating moderately to firmly in 4th or 5th gear, from just over 40mph to 50mph. There is a noticeable judder that can be felt through the car and by lightly resting a hand on the gearstick. Very gentle acceleration does not produce the judder. It does not happen in 3rd maybe because the revs cancel it out.

Any ideas?

Bob
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Post by Peter.N. »

Sounds as though its down on one cylinder, which would explain the lumpy tickover. Does it have electronic managment or a mechanical pump?
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Post by firstrebel »

It is one of the last of the mechanical pumps so Richard (DickieG) informs me. I would have thought if a cylinder was down it would manifest itself at other times as well, and that is what is odd. The engine has just turned 140K.

It was ticking over at 1000rpm when I got it and Richard dropped it down to around 850/900 hence my earlier posts on this. But on cold start (1000rpm) it is fine until it gets to normal temperature.

It seems to get worse when hot, as on the motorway, loses power. Incorrect injection timing has been suggested earlier in the thread but this is all new stuff to me. Give me a 1950's engine any day. :D

My Volvo T5 goes to the garage for everything as it is all electronics, so I am in the dark with this.

Bob
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1997 Xantia 1.9TD SX Estate. 152000 miles
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Post by Peter.N. »

Hi Bob

I grew up with Perkins 4/99 and 4/108 engines, so I know what you mean. :D By modern standards the XUD is a comparatively simple engine and the same principles apply.

The timing being out would give you a permanent fault not an intermittent one. This could be a fuel supply problem, have you changed the fuel filter recently? If blocked that would give variable symptoms as would air leaking into the fuel system. I suppose your fuel filler cap vent is not blocked.

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Post by firstrebel »

The main fuel filter has been replaced but I have not checked the in-tank one. Never thought of the filler cap vent, thought that problem died with the ark.

Bob
Robert Isaac

1997 Xantia 1.9TD SX Estate. 152000 miles
1995 Volvo 855 T5 Auto - Chipped. 186000 miles
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Post by Peter.N. »

Oh no, its still with us!
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Post by citroenxm »

Just like to make a point .... IF an XUD Cam belt is a tooth out IE: either one of the 3 TDC holes are out, then it wont go AT ALL, Ive experianced this a lot, the only timeing that can be a running adjust is the Pump on its mountings, which being a late car would be damm difficult to adjust as firstly the Hydraulic pump is in the way of the lower securing nut, so the pump has no was of moving.. This can rule out pump timing and point more to the sugestions of valve clearences, WHICH should only ever need adjusting if theres been a broken belt in the past or new valves fitted.. The XUD shim setting "coins" are extreamilly durable and rarely need adjusting which is a good thing as the cam shaft HAS to come out to do it!!

Cant remember if you've had the car long... Do you know its history? Has it come to you in this state.. to me it can either be valve clearences as sugested, OR Pump itself or fuel supply.. I dont think timing will casue uneven running.. Remeber: Its a DERV, they WILL run with Air and Fuel and dont need anything else, so something is possibly interrupting the Fuel or Air supply.. that from supply hoses/pipes to valve clearences.. A DERV WILL run evenly even fully retared or advanced, just an amplification of Knock....

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Post by firstrebel »

This car was destined for the scrap dealer with a broken rear o/s suspension valve. Richard rescued it and it sat in our garage at work for a few months. I decided to have it as a much cheaper form of transport for work than the Volvo.

It is clear it has not been looked after well. I have done: 4 new tyres, spare tyre that is hardly used but the rubber has perished and cracked and the spare wheel has a nasty kerb dink, 6 new spheres, new rad, new discs and pads, new drop links, 2 front ABS sensors, new speed sensor, new TDC sensor (was missing), new air oil and fuel filters, gearbox oil was black, engine oil was like black treacle, suspect front wheel bearings and ball joints. AC yet to be fixed. The inside was like a builders vehicle. I think you get the picture.

I have done over 2000 miles since putting it on the road last Easter.

There is a lot of clutch judder, but that may be the mountings. The clutch had been previously changed at some 'fast clutch replacement' garage in north London and raises some questions about what was done, and may be the reason things like the TDC sensor were missing.

Richard has just taken it out and his prognosis is worn engine/gearbox mounts and a worn drive shaft coupling.

I will get it up on stands over the weekend and see how things look underneath in those areas.

Bob
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Post by Paul-R »

citroenxm wrote:IF an XUD Cam belt is a tooth out IE: either one of the 3 TDC holes are out, then it wont go AT ALL,
Admittedly it's not a Citroen but many years ago I managed to put the pump of my Montego turbodiesel on one tooth out. It ran like a bag of $h!t round the block but it WOULD run.

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