Xantia V6 exclusive.

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim »

Welcome to the forum Jason :D My cruise is non-functional too so in a while I'll be seriously looking at it and will post my findings. The first thing to do is check the vacuum hose from the vacuum pump (buried down the front of the NS inner wing mudshield) to the actuator. It often splits on the pump nipple. Access is not fantastic :(

John, I can assure you there are just 4 mechanical gears in the 'box. I've counted 'em!!! As you say though, it seems like many more for the precise reasons Sid outlines. Driving across town it is remarkable, all the goings on. Mine is now so smooth after my latest round of work on it. Most changes really are totally seamless and only the tacho tells the story :D

Derek, that's an excellent method of changing the oil. You'll get more out that way as the torque convertor will have drained a little and more importantly, a lot of oil trapped in the little nooks and crannies will have drained too. I reckon after a full drain, theres still getting on for a litre skulling around hiding, just waiting to drench you when you pull the 'box apart!

I hate spilling LT71141 partly because of the cost and more because of the smell :twisted: It's truely revolting stuff. I don't know what it's made of but cats must feature somewhere in its composition :lol:

On a more serious note, I reckon LT71141 is not good for your health. After every long exposure to it, I've had a slightly upset stomach and goodness only knows I've been exposed to it enough for it not to be coincidence so always wear protective clothing and wash hands before eating or drinking.

I've never had a silimar issue with LHM; that stuff seems positively good, especially as a hair conditioner :lol:

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myglaren
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Post by myglaren »

Would it be possible to use a syringe and a length of plastic tubing - the kind used for air supply to aquaria, to extract an exact amount of oil and replace it with a similarly exact amount without spillage or annointation.

Cadence Syringes (first ones I came across for illustrative purposes only)

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim »

That's a good thought Steve :D To make the job even bertter a bigger syringe than they offer is really needed. Take my word for it, doing a refill half a litre at a time is TEDIOUS :twisted:

These gearboxes have more oil in them than the average supertanker...

Mind you anything that avoids the tedium of checking the level after each top-up is even better. Mine has a dipstick but it's about as accessible as anything else on a V6 :twisted: :twisted: Later gearboxes dispensed with the dipstick altogether and replaced it with an equally inaccessible level plug that only registers true at one specific oil temperature and then you have to interpret what they mean by a "stream" and "drips" :twisted: :lol:

V6 automatic gearboxes are serious fun :D

citrov6
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Post by citrov6 »

i don't know if its true that these box's are sensitive to over filling?

on the mk2 i use the dipstick to measure when it is getting near the top then there is a light on the dash that will go out when the right level has been reached. i then run the motor, if the level decreases add a bit more till it is out completely.

all though to do all this the air box and its support panel off helps. should run like silk afterwards though its a satisfying job especially when the previous owner never had it done...

oh and i used a small funnel for it the reservoir has a small filler hole its very easy to spill over

and welcome to the forum , nice to see another v6 xant owner joining the forum

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim »

citrov6 wrote:i don't know if its true that these box's are sensitive to over filling?
Inded it is very true :twisted: After my rebuild I managed to overfill mine to the extent that the level was about 5mm above the max. marker on the dipstick.

I had a very slight weep of oil from the NS driveshaft seal. I reduced the level by letting some run out of the level check plug a until the level was correct and no further incident. I knew the seals were OK as they were brand new (jolly expensive!) and fitted using the correct tools.

The technical documentation warns they also cook their oil if overfilled. I't's likely they'll leak before that though.

It pays to check the level very carefully. Do you have the official instructions to do it as the procedure is very different between the dipstick and non-dipstick 'boxes.

It is indeed great to see the V6 is gaining in popularity on here and that a good number are falling into the hands of people who love them :D

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Post by Sid_the_Squid »

there is a light on the dash that will go out when the right level has been reached
For the gearbox oil,What light do you speak of? none of the PDF's I have seem mention this. :?: :?: :?: :?:

Just out of interest whats the average amount of box oil you get out \ add back in each time, seems to be about 4 liters for me. Which from my discussion with the guys at B&L autos is roughly what they take out / put in on the 4HP20.
Thats a mk2 without a dipstick, following the vague pdf guide lines, like Jim says theres a lot thats down to interpretation of the vague terms, and I quote "Oil flowing out through the oil level orifice", even vaguer than the AL4 which at least indicates "The level is correct when the trickle of oil reduces to a slow drip".

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Post by jgra1 »

Jim at some point I would love to take your V6 carefully for a few miles, and swap with mine.. just to see how a good box should feel..

be prepared for a few bruised ribs from the non hydraulic v6 i have :evil:

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Post by CitroJim »

Nope, no light I know of and no sign of any sensor either that may have such a function. The engine does have an oil level sensor but it's not to be relied upon.

Last time I drained cold as Derek does and with the car up on stands at the front and down at the rear. I had no choice as the car was sans hydraulic pump and regulator at that time :roll: Doing it like that I got nearer 5 litres out :D

Broke my heart as the oil I drained had only done about 700 miles :twisted: Still it was worth it :D

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim »

jgra1 wrote:Jim at some point I would love to take your V6 carefully for a few miles, and swap with mine.. just to see how a good box should feel..

be prepared for a few bruised ribs from the non hydraulic v6 i have :evil:
Would love to do that John :D It was by driving Sid's Green Goblin I discovered all was not entirely well in my autobox so it'll be good to compare again.

No worries on the ribs, I'll wrap myself in innner tubes :lol: :lol: Anyway, it'll be great to have a drive of a 406 Coupe 8)

I'll be in touch about timing John as I'm planning a midweek 'ish day off sometime soon to come down your way with Malcolm's seats. They're in the 2.1TD at the moment (safe from my cats!) but I'm sure I can squeeze them in my V6...

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Post by jgra1 »

anytime Jim.. around every eve this week and next. could be free in an afternoon no probs..

I may try and work out what happened to my xantia ABS light, before the previous owner wired it into the alternator light :shock: :D

may save me buying more bumpers and so on ;)

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Post by FrenchLeave »

As I understand it, and I'm sure Jim will correct me if I'm wrong, the reason for a precise series of requirements when checking the oil level - gear oil at (I think) 65 degC, car level, engine running - is that there is an internal reservoir with a graduated leak which is kept topped up by the 'box pump.

If you check the level with the engine stopped, the reservoir will have drained, giving an untrue high reading. Similarly, the oil has quite a high thermal expansion coefficient so measuring at the published temperature is essential.

When I checked the level before draining mine I made a couple of assumptions: That at 60k miles (I've had it since 46k) it was still the original manufacturer's fill, and that there has never been a sign of a leak on the garage floor. Conclusion, what's in there is the correct level, but I still thought it best to check. :D

Checking on a non-dipstick car is a bit ballaching if you don't have a lift. I jacked mine up on the left side with the engine still running after its warmup, stuck a support under it, placed a strategic pan to collect the drips, undid the level plug (no oil loss because the plug was on the "high" side) removed the support, lowered it to the ground watching the plughole as I did so. There was some small loss as the car settled but as it was going into the pan that I would use to drain into it didn't matter.

Having established to my satisfaction that the level was correct I stopped the engine, jacked it up again and drained the box. I left it draining for a couple of hours to get as much out as possible and then left the oil overnight to cool down before measuring. I got 4.2 litres out at ambient temp so that's what went in, that's another story I won't bore you with.

I believe it's Assich from clubXM forum who has developed a way of doing a complete oil change, it involves sucking fresh oil in through one of the oil cooler connections whilst pumping the old oil out of t'other - all done with the engine running using the gearbox oil pump! Sounds seriously scary to me :roll:

As a seventy six year old I really must stop grovelling under cars. :lol:

Derek

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Post by Sid_the_Squid »

Your understanding is correct Derek, whilst its quite a chore to check the oil level on a non-dipstick box, its not impossible, I've managed it 3 times with the car on high you have to be dangerously close to the hot exhaust though :(

The way I usually do oil changes is following a training PDF Jim send me.
Basically drain the box, I usually leave it about 10mins maybe 20 at most.
Add 3 liters, as pdf suggests
With engine running go through all gears with break held on.
check oil level --level not correct
engine off
add .5 liter as PDF suggests
With engine running go through all gears with break held on.
check oil level --level not correct
engine off
add .5 liter as PDF suggets
With engine running go through all gears with break held on.
check oil level
oil now flowing through orifice, so according to PDF oil level correct.
engine off --refit airbox


As you can see its always about 4 liters in, never bothered to measure the amount which comes out. Did this twice with no lexia, then again at Jims with a lexia, found that the temp of oil was naturally correct. Unlike the AL4 which required 10mins of idling to get up to the correct temp to check the oil level. Obviously this process is for the mk2 Xantia with no dipstick, Mk1 with dipstick is probably quite different.
it involves sucking fresh oil in through one of the oil cooler connections whilst pumping the old oil out of t'other - all done with the engine running using the gearbox oil pump! Sounds seriously scary to me
I've known FTO owners do similar things to their autos, but like you, not something I would be comfortable with either.
As a seventy six year old I really must stop grovelling under cars
Kudos, not many 76 year olds I know who can do that. Actually come to think of it not many 76 years olds I know. ;)

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim »

FrenchLeave wrote:As I understand it, and I'm sure Jim will correct me if I'm wrong, the reason for a precise series of requirements when checking the oil level - gear oil at (I think) 65 degC, car level, engine running - is that there is an internal reservoir with a graduated leak which is kept topped up by the 'box pump.
Utterly and precisely spot-on Derek :D

I see Assich has recently joined this forum :D Hope he soon comes up and says hello. Like you though Sid, I'd not be happy about using his method although I can see the merits. The risk of loosing oil pressure and doing a spot of damage is real enough. I heard the horrible noise mine made for a split-second after I redid my shimming as it regained oil pressure and it was not nice :twisted:

When I first rebuilt mine I primed it carefully by spinning the TC by hand until oil started flowing.

I've just rechecked the level again this eveing. Sopt-on :D
FrenchLeave wrote: As a seventy six year old I really must stop grovelling under cars. :lol:
I hope I still am at your age! The day I cannot I think is the day I'll declare "goodnight Vienna" to this world and go see what cars there are to indulge my pleasure in the next :wink:

My father is still at it with cars at 86 so firstly there's another 10 years at least for you Derek and hope for me :)

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim »

Sid_the_Squid wrote: Obviously this process is for the mk2 Xantia with no dipstick, Mk1 with dipstick is probably quite different.
Just a tad Sid :) Engine idling, fans cut in then out. PRND321 and back, check dipstick. Between min and max level marker, never above.

Technically, oil should be at 80 degrees and generally when the fans have cut in one and then cut out, it is, pretty much, given the engine has an 82 degree 'stat and the 'box is effectively water cooled.

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Post by citrov6 »

4litres on mine, there is a light on the dash on both my v6's that is out when i topped up with oil, done that on 5 oil changes now. i don't think i'm imagining it, also i might of looked it up to confirm thats what it was in a user manual some years ago but by the sound of it i might of imagined that part. mine are both S reg later shape and have dipsticks

CitroJim I don't have the pdf's for filling on either of the types do you have a link up? thanks