New Member/Citroen C3 1.4 HDI 16v

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 04 May 2009, 23:44

As i found out recently, only ever replace MAFs with genuine Citroen units. Generic no brand ones dont work half as good!

With the build up of black gunk in there it should benefit from a good clean out with some system cleaner. Unfortunately you cannot clean everything with a teaspoon

So that might get around the places you cant.

Remember to keep the revs high when doing it, as that will pull the cleaner around. Also at low revs on diesels it usually causes the revs to drop and the engine will try and stall. It has the opposite effect on petrols and usually sends the revs flying.

Id certainly try it, costs very little and you should be amased at the results. Dont be tempted to use any of the halfords stuff, the boost sprays etc, they dont work nearly as well.

A garage should be able to sell you a can of Forte air intake cleaner, although i dont thin all garages who use Forte stock it. If ever anyone in the NorthEast area has problems getting hold of any of the products let me know and ill see what i can do.

Chris.

JamesQB · Post by **JamesQB** » 05 May 2009, 00:28

meexi - EGR pipe is at the back of the engine, visible when you remove the air filter box. You can see where it goes into the engine before dismantling anything by looking for a bare metal pipe at the left side of the inlet manifold, near the round wiring connector top-left of engine bay.

Glad Mick's advice about the EGR has helped someone else too, Ian. Got to say, my pipe wasn't as bad as yours, but the inside of the inlet manifold looked caked badly. The EGR valve itself was fairly coked up though and took me ages to clean. Did you enjoy getting to the 2 bolts that secure the EGR valve in place? I found them a bugger to put back in while trying to keep the metal gasket in place - used a make-up mirror to help me see it in the end.

Surprised to hear it cured the rattle. It was driving the work's Citroen Nemo that got me expecting so much more of our car in terms of quietness I think - it's very quiet and no rattle when accelerating or any other time. It has the 1.4 8-valve HDi engine in it rather than the 16V version we have in our C3s. The C3 here still has the rattle as badly and loudly as before I touched the EGR valve and pipe.

These EGR things seem a silly idea. What's happening when those large and very hard carbon chunks are going into the cylinders, and what kind of similar build-up is happening inside the inlet manifold feeds and the valve stems and faces?

I want to remove the inlet manifold at some point in the future to give it a good clean since it looked well and truly coated in black gunk, but the haynes manual says the injector pipes must be replaced after being disturbed - the Citroen service website shows them as costing £67 per pair, that's £134 for all four pipes!

Is it really vital that they are replaced once removed, does anyone know (or has found out for good or bad)?

ianckt739 · Post by **ianckt739** » 05 May 2009, 01:32

James - I was fairly shocked when the black stuff started spewing out before I had even lifted the pipe from its housing! And yes, those two bolts were great fun!

The noise may still be there under certain conditions, but on my road-test/Italian tune-up this afternoon it was certainly not present at all.

Regarding the inlet manifold, I'm inclined to leave it where it is on the same basis as you - I don't fancy the expense of replacing all those injector pipes either.

When applying the forte air intake cleaner, would this clean out the inlet manifold too maybe and negate having to take it all off?

ianckt739 · Post by **ianckt739** » 12 May 2009, 21:37

How are you getting on James, any progress?

As per your advice citroenmad I ordered some forte intake cleaner and have put that through today (air intake pipe and egr pipe), took it for a little run and it seemed alot quieter/more stable on idle.

Test will come driving around over my working week which commences tomorrow and I'll probably repeat the process again next week.

Given that it wasn't too bad before hand anyway I'm hoping I've caught it all in time this and will stave off any more serious problems from developing.

JamesQB · Post by **JamesQB** » 16 May 2009, 02:17

ianckt739 wrote:How are you getting on James, any progress?

None yet unfortunately. Spoke to Mick on the phone the other day and he was very helpful indeed, and I now have a plan to follow. It is looking likely that at least one injector needs replacing, but before any of that, I need to change the EGR vacuum solenoid, turbo vacuum solenoid, then get the fault codes read and cleared. Trouble at the moment is finances don't allow any of that to happen, and won't for quite some time, especially as only the local stealers will be able to read and clear the fault codes and their charges are high.

I decided to get onto Citroen UK again and after lots of denial about injector failures being common with the 2002-2004 C3s, and claims that cost incurred from injector failure is just one of those things like any servicing cost, the chap relented a bit (although couldn't explain why the C3 changed from the troublesome Delphi system in 2004). Has offered to subsidise the £1600 the dealership want for changing all the injectors, to the tune of a few hundred. Told him that, regardless, cannot and will not pay over a thousand on a car worth little more thanks to its reputation as a troublesome vehicle. Going to write him another long letter when I can muster the drive to do so.

Had an email back the other day from a specialist company which overhauls common rail injectors after I asked some questions regarding the Delphi system fitted in this car. He said that the injectors are very temperamental and sensitive, and the ones he has had in for reconditioning have usually suffered from water damage, contamination, as well as a sticky gum-like substance and varnish. He didn't know why the contamination is able to get to the injectors in these cars.

ianckt739 · Post by **ianckt739** » 16 May 2009, 12:00

Well at least you have a plan to get started with for now.

Do keep hassling them about it, it's rather depressing knowing how much money they've had and are trying to extort but it's certainly worth writing to them and calling them often enough to make them sick of hearing about the issue - it's the one thing that costs little enough anyway.

Regarding the gum - that's exactly how I would describe the substance fouling the inlet and EGR pipe on mine so I still maintain the EGR is to blame as a root or at least partial cause of the issue (perhaps incorrectly, I'm no expert).

Keep at Citroen UK though - don't let them wear you down so you give up!

bravehart · Post by **bravehart** » 06 Jun 2009, 11:04

hi everyone i'm new here, have read all topics on c3 hdi sx starting problems white smoke etc. had same problem no 4 injector faulty on diagnostics, had it done then the other 3 failed,had them done, no joy
changed diesel filter- glow plugs-engine harness,by now getting psst off with citroen, costing a fortune felt like rapping it round a tree,well after 6 weeks got it sorted,i decided to take it to a delphi diesel specialist we have one in lincs, i was with the car all the time and they explained everything about the system, then he programmed every injector one at a time into ecu, guess what perfect, it was a dream,ran like new,so forget dealers
it cost me £50. Well hope this will help some one.By the way get it to a diesel specialist first it could save you a fortune,

JamesQB · Post by **JamesQB** » 06 Jun 2009, 15:23

Hi and welcome to the board. It's good to hear from others suffering this kind of problem with the C3 HDi. Out of interest, what mileage was on the car when it became faulty? Citroen UK claim it isn't a fault with these cars and it's a normal part of car ownership to incur 'service costs'. What age is it, too?

Did you find out whether you actually needed those injectors changing?

James

bravehart · Post by **bravehart** » 06 Jun 2009, 18:53

hi james .52 plate c3 1.4 hdi sx 52000 on the clock, citroen no4 injector was the problem to start with, when all injectors where fix they cleared codes but after 2miles back to engine clatter, that ment no start in morning,then they started with all the fixes,now when going to a delphi diesel engineer on there computer they told me no 4 was the problem and it has failed 5 times at 52 mph since the problem started as i said he programmed each one into the ecu, to be honest i don't think no4 injector was at fault i think it maybe a fault in software maybe i'm wrong but who nows, hope you understand how i put this cos i'm not very good at this.