Citroenmads Citroen blog.

[Citroenmad]

Ive had no unwanted post yet, hopefully I wont get any

Not a lot of car news as ive been away for the week.

For the past couple of years I had been tinkering on with a 1993 XM 2.0i 8v Turbo Automatic which belonged to a family friend and was his only car. Sadly he passed away last week and so we have been given charge to sell the car for his family. Its really not in good condition and was going to be replaced as it does need a lot of work. For starters:

- Turbo doesn't work
- Speedo doesn't work - top cable has snapped
- Cruise control doesn't work
- Engine is a bit lumpy when running on LPG
- Engine management light appears sometimes (has not came on since it had a good run out)
- Engine is a bit unresponsive, especially when pulling away, but doesn't seem to use any oil
- Im unsure of its service history, I have never done an oil service, only basic things to keep the car on the road. So it needs a full service, probably with cambelt kit and water pump. The oil is clean looking but doesn't smell fresh.
- Door looks are very temperamental (though thanks to Matthew (mtxm) it now has remote locking)
- Spheres are about knackered
- AC doesnt work - no belt fitted but it probably need more than that
- Exhaust is very noisey
- Rear brake discs are wafer thin
- ABS light is temperamental (has not came on since it had a good run out)
- Tyres are all budget brands and the rears are past their best, the front pair are mismatched
- One strut top has a good bit of surface rust and is flaking but still looks strong
- Passenger door mirror is hanging on with a screw and some tape
- Road tax is due at the end of the month
- Body work - the black paint is very dull and covered with very deep swirls and scratches. The nosecone looks to have been rainted with a spray can and badly. The bumpers are scuffed the back one is cracked, there are two creases in the front NS wing and a very large dent in the NS rear wing. Wheels are reasonable-ish. All chrome strips need replacing. It needs new front slidelight units, the black panel over the reversing lights has a hole in it.

On the plus side:
- It has MOT until November
- Is LPG converted
- The body shows very little sign of rust and the sills are very decent
- The sunroof works perfectly
- Leather seats need a better clean but they are in very good condition and it has the electric armrest
- It is in a nice spec and I really like the interior, which is not showing many signs of wear and given the quick clean I gave it its came up well.

Apart from the above defects it drives well, no cluncks, nocking or rattling, the steering is tight with no knocks or looseness to be felt. The auto box is very smooth and has no slurring between changes.

This morning I did a bit of cleaning on it, the interior was full of stuff so I binned all of that and gave it a good hoover. I doubt it had been hoovered in the last 8-10 years but now looks much better. I gave the seats a quick wash but they need a better going over and some leather feed. The exterior, I only had time to do a very quick wash so its clean but in no better condition, the paintwork is really awful. I took it to the CCC Wetherby event today, which is about 70 miles away, probably the longest trip it has done for many years, as it was only used locally for small miles. It went well, aside from the lack of turbo power. It was easier to explain what is right and works with the car than what doesn't, though

So, its a bit of a project then! Failing that its scrap, which I can see being its more likely impending fate due to the time and money needed to bring it back to health. Which would be a shame as it has proved to be a very reliable and dependable car for its owner and being a late S1 car in Prestige spec its quite a nice model too, just not a great example. Its only really had work to keep it on the road and keep it moving, so I can forgive it its problems.

However, something needs to happen with it and I don't want to scrap an XM, so its sat with a for sale note on the windows and we will see if anyone takes an interest. I doubt it but you never know.

Would I be insane to be thinking about buying it myself? I would really like my own XM, this one being a well equipped S1 XM with LPG has got me thinking, is it an opportunity I should take? Im seriously considering it.

Ive got a real liking for this XM, the colour combination, the S1 dash and superb steering wheel, the leather seats and its something I would really like to see back in good condition. It would take me a while to get it right again but im sure it is do-able and I could probably do most of it myself. I have a set of gen. Citroen spheres for it, I have found a place which will made up the speedo cable, im pretty sure most of the bodywork would gome good with a machine polish, and the other bits and pieces could be sorted as and when. Besides, its driveable as it is now and is road going.

There are a few problems with me getting it, mainly due to space. As it is now our parking is full and it takes an age to get some of the cars out. Im not sure if I could justify having 3 cars and so might sell the Xantia, but the XM is too big to fit into the space where the Xantia lives. I have considered letting the Activa go for a few reasons and I prefer XMs to Xantias, a Citroen with waftability! But am I ready to sell the Activa, Id probably miss it but don't wish to keep it forever.

What should I do?!? Buy it myself, try and sell it on or scrap it?

I don't have many pictures of it, as its not very photogenic at the moment. One next to Matthews superb manual V6 XM Sei:

At the ICCCR show ground:




Mark, this is the IronX at work. In the past the brake pads on this car add been down to the metal for some time and so the front wheels were covered in filings, which were stuck on and had gone rusty:

I first gave the wheels a quick clean with wheel cleaner and then used the IronX, it went purple straight away and did a good job of shifting the stuck on filings. Needs a few more applications but its a huge improvement.

We are going to take the Traction to the CCC event tomorrow, looking forward to that! The Prestige is still there.

[Citroening]

It's a difficult one that Chris, however at the end of the day if it's scrap, it's scrap. No point ploughing hundreds and hundreds of pounds into a car that's not really worth it. The saying of "can't save them all" certainly comes to mind and the bad ones will have to go while the good ones carry on - parts from that car can help others etc.

Sounds a bit similar to the XM Prestige that I became custodian of - http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 24#p305124" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - bit different as I'll be keeping it due to the family history however with a bit of work a nice car it will be at the end of it.

[Citroenmad]

Your probably right and if it were not an XM it would be on its way already. However, part of me thinks I should retax it at the end of the month and just use it while doing a few of the repairs, of the cheaper variety, and just see how it goes.

We will see, im probably best looking out for a better example but really this one shouldn't be too much of a hassle or expense for me to get it somewhere nearer to being ok.

I totted up how much I have spent on my Activa since buying it, the figure is over 3 times what its worth. However, for 15 months ownership, 6K miles and the enjoyment of driving an Activa and improving one, its been worth it.

[Citroening]

Keep it! It's good to have a clearout and get new faces in - getting rid of a few Visa's has brought some space for a new addition to the fleet.

Series 1 XMs are getting rare on the ground anyway and Prestige's especially so - if it's savable then save it. Most definitely not economically viable from the sounds of it however depends what you want to achieve from it...

I bet I know what Robert's opinion about which to keep is...

[Dommo]

I have to admit I'd want to save it over a period of time. See if you can get the car for scrap value as that's all it's currently worth!

I can't see why the turbo doesn't work though, if it's the same as an Activa CT engine the wastegate is ECU controlled. Try bypassing the ECU controller with a manual boost controller and seeing if that brings it back to life. If not it's worth checking whether the wastegate isn't stuck open, which does happen! My friends MX5 BBR turbo had a knackered actuator spring and it meant the wastegate just flapped about so it never made the boost level it was meant to.

[Citroenmad]

Keep it! It's good to have a clearout and get new faces in - getting rid of a few Visa's has brought some space for a new addition to the fleet.

Series 1 XMs are getting rare on the ground anyway and Prestige's especially so - if it's savable then save it. Most definitely not economically viable from the sounds of it however depends what you want to achieve from it...

I bet I know what Robert's opinion about which to keep is...

Im not bored with the Xantia yet, though Xms have always had my preference over Xantias. So I think the soft ride, space (I much prefer the XM driving position) and XMness might sway me into keeping it. I wouldn't try to sell the Xantia just yet, I would have to see how this XM stacks up and then think about which one to pass on. Id rather just find a storage space for one of them but that has not proved easy. I also like having the car here and on the road, as if not I don't see why I would have them.

To my mind few XMs and Xantias are economically viable, as even with a good one your going to spend more than its worth on bits and pieces, cambelts etc. So im not bothered about that. If I improve it and get a year or so out of it then that would be great. I should then be able to pass it on in better condition and it might stand a better chance.

Its at the CCC event with for sale signs in the windows, so if anyone wants more info and would like to buy it, not sure how likely that is given the above list, then so be it. If not I think ill buy it myself.

I have to admit I'd want to save it over a period of time. See if you can get the car for scrap value as that's all it's currently worth!

I can't see why the turbo doesn't work though, if it's the same as an Activa CT engine the wastegate is ECU controlled. Try bypassing the ECU controller with a manual boost controller and seeing if that brings it back to life. If not it's worth checking whether the wastegate isn't stuck open, which does happen! My friends MX5 BBR turbo had a knackered actuator spring and it meant the wastegate just flapped about so it never made the boost level it was meant to.

Im sure I could get the car at the right price and not all of its issues need to be solved at once. After all, its been a daily driver, albeit it a low usage one, while accumulating these issues.

I think the turbo could be a sticking wastegate but its interesting what you say. I might well try it with a manual boost controller. Something is obviously not quite right, as sometimes at 3000rpm and above the engine management light comes on, its also very sluggish to pull away from a standstill. Which to me might suggest a sensor. At worst the turbo is dead, though im hoping its something more simple and cheaper to fix.

Really its space which is my biggest issue, it would have to live out the front of our house. However even if I changed my mind about it and didn't want the car I could always break it and get my money back. The interior is superb, doors are very good, etc, so it should be doable. Breaking an XM would be a last resort for me though.

[ragger]

Sorry to hear the old chap has passed on. I didn't see him out and about often, but was always pleased to do so.

In all honesty, it seems to me to be a labour of love that could lead to tears if a full restoration is in your mind. I really enjoyed the three XMs I have owned but I decided that ultimately a more modern car was better suited to the long journeys I wanted the XM for. Having said that, nothing is as comfy in my experience, including CXs and a Renault 16 (God I would love another one of those).

Might see you tomorrow, I shall be heading down in the 2CV to arrive at about 11 for a couple of hours.

Rob

[Citroenmad]

It is a shame, he was a good age and always active.

It would be a labour of love in a way but it would just be as and when I would want to do it. Apart from the turbo and the dents on the near side its all fairly straight forward for me to do, and im sure I could get the turbo working again. XMs can be very reliable and a joy to own, but I like having the more modern C5s for the every day reliance.

In all honesty it makes very little sense to buy it, I'll have to sleep on it

I'll see you there

[citroenxm]

I WANT IT....

Its perfect, though the TCT would have to go.... but Id keep the rest for something..

Let me know Chris! Fancy a swap for a K reg 2.1td manual, D, in almost perfect order? Needs a clutch but still drives VERY well

[citroenxm]

I know what could be up with the Turbo, BUT IM NOT TELLING YOU! Its Black! I WANT IT....

The turbos are NOT directly ECU controlled, they are Vaccumed controled Wastegate just like HDi's but the ECU monitors boost pressure and when it reaches the Set PSI in the ECU it switch's the vaccum in the "Gateway" thats on the back of the inlet/bulkhead area with the plug on it, so the waste gate opens - If you drop off the vaccum pipe to the turbo wastegate off the valve the wastegate stays shut, then you DO feel the difference. Its shut by default on TCTs so my guess or even experiance IS the little C clip that holds the wastegate control arm on under the car has rusted away and the srm has dropped off and the wastegate is STUCK wide open, this happened on my own TCT... the spigot the control lever was held on was rusted a little and the clip wouldnt stay on. Mechanically it was all OK otherwise...

[chopper602]

- Body work - the black paint is very dull and covered with very deep swirls and scratches.

I could give you a hand with the paint work, amazing what the correct polishes and pads can do . . .

[robert_e_smart]

Theres not really much wrong with it Chris to be honest. Spend a couple of hundred quid on parts and you are flying. Remove things like A/C and Cruise from the list and its not as daunting.

I would stick a TD lump in it and use it. But it depends on how good the shell is.

[Citroenmad]

Im not sure what is going to happen with it yet, the owners seem like they want to hold out for decent money and im not prepared to pay it for such a bad example.

The shell is good, ever so slight rust appearing on the NS rear wing bottom, the sills are pretty sound but the front subframe is looking quite crusty. Apart from that the paintwork is very tired but should come up good with a machine polish. There is a large crease in the rear wing and the front wing. The interior is about perfect. I would not be putting a diesel lump in it, the TCT is a good and reliable engine and with the turbo working it should go well too. Its on LPG so has diesel running costs, can't see why a diesel would be needed.

I filled it up with LPG, when I eventually found somewhere selling it, I must have been to over 6 stations! An experience as I had not filled a gas car before, are you supposed to get a face full of it when you release the nozzle?

Thanks for the tips about the turbo Paul, should I keep it then it'll be my starting point. After a Lexia session. Would you really want it? Im in two minds about it, ive driven it about 200 miles this weekend and its not faultered (well, not got any worse) but still unsure. It'll never be as tidy as I like cars to be and it would mean my Xantia would need new digs, which is like a factory fresh car compared to this Prestige.

Turbo, spheres, speedo and it would be reasonable. Then the bodywork and odds like the AC and cruise could be sorted out later. Im very tempted by the idea of an XM and have been for a while, so I can see myself buying one even if its not this Prestige. Im awaiting to hear a verdict from its owners as to what they think.

[citroenxm]

the tct still needs throwing away... i had one identical it was on lpg too it still wasnt quite as good as a 2.1 derv or a hdi 110...

well.. its black chris.. thats ALL that counts to me!!

[Citroenmad]

I think it'll be doing something like the equivalent of 40-45mpg, so not too bad and not worth the hassle of swapping to a diesel. Plus, diesels are more noisy, dont get me wrong though, I do generally prefer diesels but its nice to drive a petrol every now and again.

You like black XMs then?

I should really do my best to keep this XM on the road, as I fear its end might be near. It had no interest at all this weekend, so it might be up to me to give it another lease of life. Im not sure what its owners family thinks yet, they were thinking about what to do with it after I informed them of it having generated no interest at the event this weekend.

Hmm