Citroenmads Citroen blog.

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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DickieG
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Re: Citroenmads Citroën blog, now with added 2cv

Post by DickieG »

myglaren wrote:What's up with the C5 Chris?
It's a secret fault :lol: :lol:

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myglaren
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Re: Citroenmads Citroën blog, now with added 2cv

Post by myglaren »

DickieG wrote:
myglaren wrote:What's up with the C5 Chris?
It's a secret fault :lol: :lol:
Oh! One of those eh?

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CitroJim
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Re: Citroenmads Citroën blog, now with added 2cv

Post by CitroJim »

DickieG wrote:
myglaren wrote:What's up with the C5 Chris?
It's a secret fault :lol: :lol:
I expect the solution to it is a closely guarded secret too...

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Re: Citroenmads Citroën blog, now with added 2cv

Post by DickieG »

CitroJim wrote:
DickieG wrote:
myglaren wrote:What's up with the C5 Chris?
It's a secret fault :lol: :lol:
I expect the solution to it is a closely guarded secret too...
What is?

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Re: Citroenmads Citroën blog, now with added 2cv

Post by Citroenmad »

No, its no secret :lol:

Its got a slipping clutch :( Though im 100% sure its NOT down to a worn friction plate. Ive covered way more than half the cars mileage and im as light on a clutch as possible, I dont ride it during gear changes, I dont sit at junctions holding the car on the bite of the clutch etc.

However, there is a bit of a common problem with the 2.0 138bhp 16v HDi in that the gearbox oil seal can let out oil onto the clutch plate and so cause it to slip.

When I first bought the car it appeared, the car had only just turned 12K miles. It only happened a couple of times and I questioned myself as to if it was actual slipping as it would only happen for a slit second then the revs would match the speed again. I took it back to the main dealer where I bought it, they road tested it and couldnt get the clutch to slip. They extended the warranty on the clutch, which has now ran out.

That was 18K miles ago and it has been perfect since, not a judder or a slip of the clutch, even with lots of weight in the car and accelerating in high gears at 2000rpm - which is when it slips. So I had kind of forgotten about it, though the past couple of weeks the fault has been back. It slips in 4th, 5th and 6th if I accelerate hard at 2000rpm. It starts slipping from just past 2000rpm and then the revs rise to around 2600rpm and the speed then catches up with the revs. However after it has slipped it wont do it for a while and you often cant get it to slip on command. The clutch bite is not high, there is sometimes the odd judder when pulling away, but only now it has started slipping.

So my theory is, going with the frequent reports of this problem on this engine and the matching symptoms, it sounds as though it has an oil leak onto the clutch. Perhaps in the colder weather the seal lets out more oil than in the hotter summer months, explaining why the problem went away. After the cluch has slipped the oil is burnt off and so it lasts for a short time without a slip.

I have considered it might be a DMF problem but the symptoms dont fit with that being the failure.

Have to say im dissapointed, I know its not a new car but its only covered 30K miles, for a clutch to be slipping at that mileage is dissapointing.

Ive found a good few reports of the same problem on the internet. Its also on here about the same problem, though more so on the new C5IIIs and C4s too. Our other 138 16V HDi has not had any clutch problems in the 35K we have had it, its now on 80K miles.

Its going into a gearbox specialist who will do the repair, if it needs a new DMF and clutch kit due to oil contamination then so be it. Im not sure when I can get it booked in yet as im still getting quotes for the job and trying to source parts while finding someone to fit it in pretty soon.

As I dont want to do any more damage by driving it with a slipping clutch im not using it.
My Activa will have to carry on as my daily motor for a few weeks, good fun it is though! I should LPG it and get rid of the C5 :twisted:

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CitroJim
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Re: Citroenmads Citroën blog, now with added 2cv

Post by CitroJim »

Oh dear Chris, that doesn't sound too good :(

Surprised the oil seal might be a bit suspect... That problem, I thought, was resolved years ago...

Still, a nice excuse to make excellent use of the Activa 8-)

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Re: Citroenmads Citroën blog, now with added 2cv

Post by robert_e_smart »

Get the DMF changed at the same time. Preventative maintenance and all that, they have also come down in price this past while.

If it was the DMF you just have a large banging and rattling noise. The clutch wasn't slipping on our C5 when the DMF went either.

If my folks get another C5, I'll be encouraging them to get an automatic.

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Re: Citroenmads Citroën blog, now with added 2cv

Post by Citroenmad »

CitroJim wrote:Oh dear Chris, that doesn't sound too good :(

Surprised the oil seal might be a bit suspect... That problem, I thought, was resolved years ago...

Still, a nice excuse to make excellent use of the Activa 8-)
No, its a little dissapointing and no doubt going to be pricey.

Indeed! Its a real joy to use. 8-)
robert_e_smart wrote:Get the DMF changed at the same time. Preventative maintenance and all that, they have also come down in price this past while.

If it was the DMF you just have a large banging and rattling noise. The clutch wasn't slipping on our C5 when the DMF went either.

If my folks get another C5, I'll be encouraging them to get an automatic.
I was chatting to a Citroen specialist yesterday who said he would probably leave the DMF, given its low mileage. Typically they fail at around 60K-80K miles, more than double what it has now and many go on for a lot longer. Though ill get it inspected when the clutch is out.

Our 8v HDi C5 has had its DMF replaced with a solid flywheel but a solid kit is not available for the 16v 2.0HDi, unfortunately.

Doubt ill have another C5, ive had 3, time for a change next time. The new C5III uses the same engine and it has this problem too, though the fact it is a saloon puts me off.

Ill update with the findings once its stripped down.

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Re: Citroenmads Citroën blog, now with added 2cv

Post by Citroenmad »

The C5s new clutch kit should be here tomorrow and the gearbox oil seal on Wednesday. With any luck by the weekend it wil be back on the road again. Im getting it replaced by a good local garage who I often use for things like cambelts etc. Hopefully the replacement seal will last longer than 30K miles :shock:

Ill be glad to get the C5 back :)


I spent an excellent day driving around very nice roads in Yorkshire in the 2cv yesterday, often in a convoy of many 2cvs (dont know how many yet but there were lots of them). We ended up at the Tan Hill Inn, highest Inn in Britain, for a very nice sunday lunch, then off home in the rain. Ive never had so much fun driving a car, what a laugh, I enjoyed every second of it. 8-)

There were some very tidy 2cvs there, a few Dyannes, even a Bijou and an Ami 6. There was also a Pig nose Visa twin pot and a LNA too. A nice turnout:

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RichardW
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Re: Citroenmads Citroën blog, now with added 2cv

Post by RichardW »

Don't fancy doing it yourself then Chris.... 2.0 HDI 16V Clutch change :twisted:

Odd that some of them seem to suffer repeated slipping clutches - I'm not convinced about the oil seal - Citroen have used this box, or variations of it, for years, so why should the oil seal suddenly start to give trouble? What they haven't been using is the (hideously expensive) LUK self adjusting clutch.... Guess you'll be looking at 6+ hours labour, plus the clutch - the bill will certainly be north of £500. Hope it sorts things out!

The 2CV run to Tan Hill looks like a laugh - at least there wasn't 3ft of snow this year.

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Re: Citroenmads Citroën blog, now with added 2cv

Post by Citroenmad »

No, I don't really fancy doing it myself :lol: Ill leave it to the garage with a 4 post lift :roll: Ive never needed to replace a clutch in a car yet, but I have used this garage many times for various cars and they are very good, so I have faith that they will get it sorted out.

Im convinced its the oil seal, or at least oil getting onto the clutch. Its symptoms suggest oil contamination and it does seem a bit of a regular thing on the 2.0 16v HDi. This thread is an example of the problem. Not sure why this would be a problem on this engine, it does seem to be, its also on C4 forums and here.

However there are these two posts too, one says engine oil seal and another a leaking clutch cylinder:
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... ing+clutch" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... ing+clutch" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It doesn't have the symptoms of a failing DMF and id put good money on the fact the clutch friction plate is not just worn out. So it can only really be an oil seal or the hydraulics not working correctly. I asked a local Citroen specialist about the problem but they had never had one in with the same fault.

Either way, its getting stripped down and they will hopefully find the fault and replace the needed bits. It will have a new genuine Citroen clutch fitted. They have a spare lift so it will just stay there until the problem has been found and the bits sourced. If its not fixed after that I've got a box of matches handy :twisted:

Ill update this when I find out the cause of the problem, quite interested to see what has failed at such low mileage.

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Re: Citroenmads Citroën blog, now with added 2cv

Post by Citroening »

Citroenmad wrote:There were some very tidy 2cvs there, a few Dyannes, even a Bijou and an Ami 6. There was also a Pig nose Visa twin pot and a LNA too.
I couldn't believe it when I saw on the Visa Forum that a Piggy Pot was there! Apparently the owner drove all the way from France in it which was 530 miles! :-D Don't suppose you took any pics of the Piggy Pot did you Chris, there's only one indirect photo of it on the Visa Forum so far...

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Re: Citroenmads Citroën blog, now with added 2cv

Post by Citroenmad »

Citroening wrote:
Citroenmad wrote:There were some very tidy 2cvs there, a few Dyannes, even a Bijou and an Ami 6. There was also a Pig nose Visa twin pot and a LNA too.
I couldn't believe it when I saw on the Visa Forum that a Piggy Pot was there! Apparently the owner drove all the way from France in it which was 530 miles! :-D Don't suppose you took any pics of the Piggy Pot did you Chris, there's only one indirect photo of it on the Visa Forum so far...
I have got one of it, as it was driving in, ill post it up ..

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Re: Citroenmads Citroën blog, now with added 2cv

Post by Citroenmad »

Here you go Franklin:
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That is very impressive, to drive over from Fance for the event 8-)

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Re: Citroenmads Citroën blog, now with added 2cv

Post by Citroening »

Thanks for that Chris. 8-)