50mph limit for rural roads

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Are you in favour of this proposal?

Aye
1
4%
Naye
26
96%
 
Total votes: 27

Toby_HDi
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Post by Toby_HDi »

jmaccyd wrote:Of course speed is not the only factor, but is nothing short of self denying nonesense to pretend it is not a key factor on rural roads.
It is NOT the key factor, the key factor is unsafe driving - of which driving too fast for the conditions is the primary reason. There is a difference. It is not self denying nonsense. I will happily drive at 30mph in a 60mpg limit should I feel the conditions and layout demand it.

As for stopping distances which you mentioned...an example:

I have known an occasion where somebody was driving down a road with a 30mph limit. A small child then happened to run out in front of this person who was actually driving at 40mph - they stopped with plenty of space to spare. Stopping distances are another thing that are outdated.

I have never been one to trust statistics, they can be twisted in many ways to suit different parties. They also very rarely tell the real story.

As before, driver attitudes are the factor here. Yes I agree that too many drivers do drive at unnecessary speeds on some roads, however, that does not mean a blanket law that ALL roads should be 50mph.

The thinking behind this one is to make the NSL 50mph, a lot of roads subject to the NSL are actually not every rural at all.

It is clear to me, as well as everyone else I have spoken to on this matter (and that includes and ex police office and an Advanced Driving Instructor) that this is unnecessary and smacks of money making.

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jmaccyd
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Post by jmaccyd »

Xac wrote:Don't you just love statistics?
Are you suggesting that speed is the main factor in the larger number of deaths?
Above: higher traffic levels, more obsticals to collide with should an accident occur, lower road upkeep, use of dangerous road surface materials (that I believe in Eire are restricted to only be used in 30mph areas), more wildlife, more ice, more liable to flooding or standing water, longer response times for emergency services...

.
Er...not really I couldn't even be bothered to re-arrange them to make them more presentable! However, two-thirds of all road deaths are on rural roads is an important statistic I would think in relation to the poll question (well, at least to two thousand families a year) As for speed, yes I would contend the higher death, and serious injury rate on rural roads over urban areas, is linked to higher speed in rural areas

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jmaccyd
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Post by jmaccyd »

CitroJim wrote:All those statistics really say to me (and I deal in them a lot 8) ) is that really, overall there is very little difference between them over the years so they prove nothing except that whatever you do, the figures remain about the same.

Rural roads are bloody dangerous but for reasons that have nothing whaever to do with speed, which is, in any case, generally self-limiting due to the conditions.

Rural roads are poorly maintained and this, I believe, is one of the main causes of accidents. A rural road I travel on every day has large potholes and vehicles now swerve to avoid them. It's only a matter of time before a swerve results in a bad smash. Additionally, this same road has collapsed edges and very poor camber resulting in poor handling and control. It suffers from standing water and consequent ice in winter. That's just one road I use and it's a pretty typical one.
Another issue with a lot of rural roads is that nowadays the volume of traffic they carry is far in exces of what they were designed to carry. This, around our way at least, is through a practice called "rat running" to avoid the heavily congested main roads on the commute to and from work. Why people choose to live so far from work and then suffer a miserable commute is totally beyond me.
.
Well, when I see figures that show that over three thousand people die on our roads each year I ALWAYS find that shocking. These figures can be cut and effective speed reduction is (just) one of the ways of making significant inroads
Yes, rural roads are in a shocking state, and I suspect with the recent poor weather and the economic situation they will only get worse.

addo
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Post by addo »

How many lane miles (eg; a two lane road over one mile is two lane miles) are there of rural road vs motorway?

This has a great capacity to affect statistical outcomes.

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim »

I'd say (no figures) about 80% of our roads are what might be called rural single-carriageways. Narrow, twisty and often little more than single-tracks.

We really don't have that many motorway miles or for that matter, dual-carriageway miles considering our huge population density and the number of car journeys necessitated by our poor public transport infrastructure. Most of our motoryway and fast "A" (Trunk) roads are in a perpetual state of congestion and thus much moves along the poorly maintained and unsuitable back roads in an attempt to make progress. I'm guilty of that and will be doing so on Friday when I know several major trunk roads on my journey home from this course I'm attending will be snarled so I've plotted a nice "scenic route" home.

Honestly Adam, we really are the poor man of Europe when it comes to our road (and rail) network. Compare us with France and weep.

Add to that shoddy maintenance and ill-conceived traffic calming and congestion plans and it's little wonder the UK roads are so dangerous.

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Xaccers
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Post by Xaccers »

5th gear mentioned the very high percentile figure of how much of our road network is considered dangerous and that you're more likely to crash into a tree than another car.
They tested how a 5star euro encap (the lovely Laguna 2) would cope with a 40mph head on collision with a tree.
The result was really impressive!
The tree burried itself into the engine bay nearly up to the bulkhead, and the front bumper wrapped around it so much the curly haired bloke could touch both ends together!
The cabin though was pretty much intact, the doors could be opened easily, and the driver would have most likely been able to walk away.

Here you go, makes some very interesting viewing!
Of the 1/3 of the network that had been checked by the time of broadcast, 40% of roads were only given 1 star.
Most of those caught out and injured/killed are sensible law abiding drivers, not boy racers travelling too fast.


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myglaren
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Post by myglaren »

My son was involved in an accident on a rural road last Saturday (my birthday, ironically enough as I was supposed to be staying with him on my way to London but never went).

He was only doing 45 (with an Exige 2' from his back wheel) and took a gentle curve with the camber all wrong - road recently resurfaced.

He killed his bike, a lot of bushes and almost himself. He will be off work for six months or more, won't be able to drive or ride a bike for at least a year.

The Exige just took off. The BMW behind that stopped and phoned for an ambulance while Richard flopped around like a fish out of water. Just been discharged from hospital today and in a lot of pain and looking like ten stone of mincemeat.

He is a careful driver and rider - been in the police and knows what an RTA can do to people.

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Xaccers
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Post by Xaccers »

SMA road surface can be lethal
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/f ... 278419.stm

If memory serves, the program also interviewed a biker who was following his mate (an advanced riding instructor) who went round a bend on a hot day and the road surface had been patched rather than repaired.
The "tar" gave way under his tyres and he lost his life.

Hope your son makes a full recovery Steve.

red_dwarfers
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Post by red_dwarfers »

Xac wrote:SMA road surface can be lethal
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/f ... 278419.stm
We almost need more poor road surface signs... :shock:

dnsey
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Post by dnsey »

I seem to remember that an article (in Bike mag?) suggesting that these surfaces can exude an oil for some time after they're laid, if weather conditions are not suitable, or correct procedure is not followed when laying them. The implication was that they are OK when done properly - but that that's a fairly rare occurance.

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Ross_K
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Post by Ross_K »

Xac wrote:SMA road surface can be lethal
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/f ... 278419.stm
Yep

From that link:
File On 4 found the same surfaces are banned in Ireland on some roads because of fears about poor grip.
News to me - the stuff is still being used here.

A neighbour of mine was killed crossing the road a couple of months ago when a bus wasn't able to stop in time on a newly resurfaced stretch of road.

Fine for surfacing your driveway, but not much else...

addo
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Post by addo »

I've met trees at some speed, on a dirt road, in a pre-airbag car. Driver error, but I walked away with one graze and bought a bigger, more powerful car. I still don't feel the need for "nannying" speed limits and oppose in sympathy, these proposals for the UK.

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Xaccers
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Post by Xaccers »

Ross_K wrote: From that link:
File On 4 found the same surfaces are banned in Ireland on some roads because of fears about poor grip.
News to me - the stuff is still being used here.

A neighbour of mine was killed crossing the road a couple of months ago when a bus wasn't able to stop in time on a newly resurfaced stretch of road.

Fine for surfacing your driveway, but not much else...
I think it's allowed on 30mph roads and below.
Frankly any material which under any circumstances in itself can lose traction with tyres should be banned from any road application.

ACTIVE8
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Post by ACTIVE8 »

Xac wrote:SMA road surface can be lethal
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/f ... 278419.stm

If memory serves, the program also interviewed a biker who was following his mate (an advanced riding instructor) who went round a bend on a hot day and the road surface had been patched rather than repaired.
The "tar" gave way under his tyres and he lost his life.

Hope your son makes a full recovery Steve.
So technology moves on, and tyres technically improve, we have certainly moved on from the days of crossplies, and radial tyres now are very good.

So, what happens the authorities put down this crap road surface, that you don't know how good it is, and therefore the levels of grip available, so they end up launching you back to the days of poor grip, and even off the road if you are unlucky.

It's amazing you could not make this B.S**T up! :evil:

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myglaren
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Post by myglaren »

Xac wrote:SMA road surface can be lethal
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/f ... 278419.stm

If memory serves, the program also interviewed a biker who was following his mate (an advanced riding instructor) who went round a bend on a hot day and the road surface had been patched rather than repaired.
The "tar" gave way under his tyres and he lost his life.

Hope your son makes a full recovery Steve.
Thanks Xac. I'm sure he will eventually but it is going to take some time.