Xantia Estate Handling

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Xaccers
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Post by Xaccers »

citrojim wrote:
addo wrote: How do 205 go on a non-Hydractive car, in foul weather? Is there a significantly increased risk of aquaplaning, or losing the rear?
Never had a problem and we get plenty of the foul stuff here :(

...on the wider rims though.
Personally, on steels, I'd stick with the 185's, and I don't have any handling problems with them.

It's all down to the tyres and how good they are.
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Post by jgra1 »

Have 205's on exclusive centerless wheels on my TD

I am not very 'handling sensitive' but all I seem to have is more grip, no other issues
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Post by addo »

By "Exclusive" wheels, do you mean this type?

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Post by jgra1 »

yep :D

I dont really like them but am not remotely interested in doing anything about it :twisted:
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Post by Mandrake »

addo wrote:I can't wait for the four wheel drifting stories either! :twisted:

That aside, to answer your question Simon... Oversteer is mainly something I'd like to see/understand in this car as a controllable aspect. Doesn't mean it would be used necessarily, but as perhaps the quality which could save a corner or evasive manoevre, I feel knowing it has a place. Did you fit the 205s onto Activa or "Le Castellet" style rims; wondering because mine are only 5.5 wide (unlike Activa wheels)?
Hi Adam,

I fitted them to the standard 15" alloys that came with the car - whether the Activa rims are any wider I'm not sure. The tyres do look a bit wider than the rims, but I haven't had any issues at all, even pushing it really hard.

Regards,
Simon
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Post by Mandrake »

addo wrote:Just want to "bump" some questions that others might be able to help with:

My rims are 5.5 wide, and are recommended for the 185 width tyres.

What will happen if I go wider/lower profile, as to the 205 used on Activas (albeit with their 6.0 wide wheels)? Will the extra sidewall curvature on the narrower rims negate any real handling gains?
Just spotted this message after replying to your first one. Yes there is a bit more curvature on the sidewall (I guess my rims are 5.5" as well as they are the standard alloys) but as to negating handling advantage - no I don't think so, I notice a big handling and grip improvement over the 185/65/15.
How do 205 go on a non-Hydractive car, in foul weather? Is there a significantly increased risk of aquaplaning, or losing the rear?
Aquaplaning is more about the tread design than a small (20mm) increase in tread width IMHO. One of the reasons I chose the XM1 is they are designed specifically for wet weather and have four large/deep water channels in the middle, and they are an asymetric tread with the outside edge optimised for dry conditions and inner edge optimized for wet. (So they say)

You can see their tread pattern here:

http://www.michelin.com.au/UploadedFile ... 1tekFS.pdf

No problems with aquaplaning that I've noticed - in fact I chuck it around with confidence in the wet and the neutral handling of the Xantia (mine anyway) means that even when you do start to slip sideways a bit its perfectly controllable and driftable - it doesn't suddenly let go at the front or rear only.

I can't see any reason why they wouldn't be ok on a non-hydractive car, although the maximum cornering performance you'll reach will be less since the car will be rolling more and have less damping. (Than the hard mode in hydractive)

Regards,
Simon
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Post by addo »

Curiosity (perversity?) has won out. Off to the wet skid pad for eight hours next Saturday - albeit under supervsion/instruction - to see how it lets go. :twisted:

Cheers, Adam.
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Post by citronut »

i feel although the type tyres are possibly important, but if a hydraulic citroen missbehaves it could be down to the suspension not working as its ment to, like maybe sphere presures?????

regards malcolm
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Post by addo »

Hi Malcolm, spheres checked out fine; about four months back. Fronts were down 5 or less bar on maximum, all three rears were replaced or regassed as needed, plus my accumulator was new in May.

Embarrassing to say, but getting an imbalanced front wheel sorted made a big difference to understeer in corners. I've probably picked up 5km/h in cornering speed from a $15 balance. With front pads about 2½mm thick (honestly!) I like to minimise brake usage... Before anyone worries too much about the brakes, I'm collecting new rotors in a fortnight, and have NOS pads in a box waiting.

Regards, Adam.
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Post by citronut »

must be dodging the roooooos causeing your deviation in driveing line then, dose that only happen on cornnering or in a straight line as well,

TEA he

regards malcolm
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Post by addo »

I've never hit anything larger than a parrot, but my father was struck at by a black mamba in his 403 - albeit in Zambia. For once he (inexplicably) had the driver's window up, and venom just trickled down the glass... :shock:

Statistically, the odds of a big hit are therefore rising - I do a good amount of country miles at speed, and wildlife comes out from late afternoon into the mid-evening. A feral pig would be a bad one to collect - they're huge sometimes. You do keep your eyes wide open, but the anchors are #1 option, followed by $12K insured value! :wink:

Our roundabouts are not designed in like many of yours. They're frequently titchy afterthoughts pasted onto formerly straight roads by local councils. The number you could put a car through sideways (if that were your idea of fun), is very small.

Back to the main thread ideas; I shall ask someone else in attendance to snap a picture or two if there're any photo-worthy moments on Saturday. Sharing the fun is part of my philosophy; not into just talking about cars!

Cheers, Adam.
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Post by addo »

OK, back with some test results. There weren't any decent photo ops during the day, sadly.

First to note - I was slowest in the timed events, being beaten by vehicles including an SS Commodore, several Evos and a Toyota Echo. This probably reflects my inclination to "cruise" rather than race about. It also reflects (slightly) the power/weight ratio of an Estate with the 2 litre petrol engine and auto box...

Secondly - handling was decidedly towards understeer. Only got the rear to hang out twice under appreciable steering lock and hard throttle (actual road speed probably 25-30MPH). Even then it was readily corrected. The basic trait of significant understeer just increased with speed or lock.

In conclusion, it's more predictable than I imagined it might be - showing that when it has gone pear shaped, I've probably been pushing it rather too hard!

Another two recent discoveries that apply across the board are - an imbalanced front wheel was costing me cornering speed by removing stability, and the propensity of tyres to lose pressure unevenly (good reason to check it weekly).

Anyhow, next step in the handling quest is probably 205 width tyres to the front. It'll have to wait a few weeks until the heater core and aircon etc are resolved. My generally rough treatment of the car may have also started to upset one of the coil packs - I was getting an intermittent stumble at light throttle settings, coming home from the track.

Cheers, Adam.
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Post by addo »

Wow - almost three years later! :shock:

205s seem to stick fine; I've found the "Scandinavian Flick" generally works but it retains a good feeling of predictability/control. Largeish flat areas with gravel are hard to find around my way.
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Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

well my 1998 xantia s2 estate goes round roundabouts at 45 mph comfortably no back end jumping out and my Tyre pressures are 34 psi in front and 30 psi at the back, I dont buy expensive tyres and never have I firmly believe they would be a waste of good money.

I have had two part worns on the rear of the car for the last three years and it has only slid out at the rear once in all the time I have owned it and even then I was being silly on a cambered bend in the wet, my xantia is the best car I have ever driven in ice and snow a lot more grippy than my old BX anyway but twice as heavy I suppose. I have never experienced having to brake before cornering loosing all of the inertia which throws you around the corner
(a terrible waste of fuel). unless it is icy of course. I would say that the xantia S2 can be thrown about more than a lot of other cars on the road
a friend not to long ago lost his vauxhall cavalier on a sharp turn doing just 40mph he hit the kerb on the opposite side of the road destroying his bottom swing arm completely effectively righting off the car, my xantia still takes the same corner at 50 to 60mph in similar conditions no problem at all.
I think it depends a lot on how you approach the corners that matters.

regards Nigel.
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Post by Xaccers »

Have to totally agree with you Nigel, Cassy loves the roundabouts in MK and gives perfect feedback, I can throw her around and know exactly how she'll handle.
Jim had a chance to experience how good a drive she is today :)
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