STOP light and red high engine temp light flashing

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 25 Sep 2008, 09:04

Hi,
Have you checked all the connections that Clogzz & admiral51 have mentioned as that should be your starting point.

Once you have ruled the connections out you can take it from there.

Clogzz · Post by **Clogzz** » 25 Sep 2008, 13:48

The air-conditioned Xsara has cooling fans and 3 relays like the Xantia.
If the green relays have 4 pins, they can be swapped left to right.
If they have 5 pins, they can be swapped all around.
The lower black relay has 5 pins, and can be tried anywhere.

When you switch on the air conditioning, you must hear the top right relay click to send the fans to low speed.
If it doesn’t click, probably that its 5 Amp fuse has blown.

Ideas here:
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=24125

http://www.peugeotlogic.com/workshop/ws ... fanop1.htm

Nuneatonrob · Post by **Nuneatonrob** » 25 Sep 2008, 18:39

I'll have a go at checking the connections tomorrow when I have more time...I just hope I can locate the Bitron unit/brown connector.

The fans don't seem to come on slow speed at all for actual engine temp...I ran it earlier, and it went way over 90 degrees then STOP and high temp started flashing but no fans...I didn't want to run it any longer incase it boiled over....

I have the feeling this is going to be a nightmare.

What gets me is the fact that somebody...previous owner perhaps?? took the bulbs out the dash....it didn't register when I was looking at the car as i haven't had a Xsara before, but just put 2 and 2 together because my old pug 306 had the stop and high temp lights!!

I'll keep you posted..

Thanks for all the great advice etc so far everyone...

Much appreciated..

Rob

Post by **admiral51** » 25 Sep 2008, 23:01

hi Rob
If you look in this thread look at locations I6 - J6 you can see the brown temperature sensor plug sat on top of the thermostat housing.
with the ignition on and this plug removed both fans should spin at full speed together
This is the Xantia engine but should give you some idea what to look for

Colin

john alexander · Post by **john alexander** » 26 Sep 2008, 23:47

Hi there I had the exact problem with one of my xantias, really annoying . Plus fans running on after engine switched off. The wires to the brown connector on the thermostat were stretched tight over something , moved the cable and problem solved , never returned . regards john.

Nuneatonrob · Post by **Nuneatonrob** » 29 Sep 2008, 11:27

I can't seem to find the 'brown' connector...I can see a blue connector attached to the end of the thermostat housing (I think it's the thermostat housing) right hand side of the engine as you look at it from the front??

I even got the Haynes BoL out for a berlingo and that mentioned a blue connector as the main plug for the engine temp associated fan switch, which seemed to figure as that's what this HDI engine has on it...

I am completely lost on this...I will have to call it a day and get a 'proper' mechanic to look at it, as I just don't seeem to be able to work it out...Oh I tried swapping the relays about and the right hand relay clicks on when the engine gets VERY hot and the right hand fan cuts in at high speed...left hand fan is still dead and it's not the relay apparently.

After having a Pug 306 1.9td XUD then moving to a HDI I am starting to regret it as it's a complete and utter nightmare to work on the engine at all...for example changing the alternator......I had to remove the A/C compressor, power steering pump, oil filter and expantion tank and air box just to get it out!!!!!

I am begining to fall out of love with this car!!

Clogzz · Post by **Clogzz** » 29 Sep 2008, 14:20

It looks like the top relays are placed the 306 way, being opposite to the Xantia, because the right hand relay switches the high speed:

http://www.peugeotlogic.com/workshop/ws ... fanop1.htm

That would mean that the top left relay must switch at low speed.
When switching on the air conditioning, even with a cold engine, it’s then the top left relay that you must hear click.
If it doesn’t, that’s where the fault is, causing loss of the low speed.

The low speed relay socket must have 12 volts on two terminals, even with the key out.
If not, there is a blown fuse.
The lower change-over relay passes the low speed current without being energised.
You can test that by bypassing as in the second picture, and by this topic:

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=24125

Nuneatonrob · Post by **Nuneatonrob** » 09 Oct 2008, 12:04

Just an update in this episode. My local auto sparky wanted roughly £70 - £100 to diagnose the issue on my car. So I have decided to think about it and see if I can find anywhere cheaper to take a look.

Anyway, I popped down to the local main dealer to get a new rubber button diaphram for my key and boot light switch and a couple of dash bulbs...all in by the way was £15! They said they will hook it up and run diagnotics on it for £45, and include a hire car over night and all day the following day (so i can get to work) included in the price. (Arbury Citroen, Nuneaton)

Does this sound like a reasonable deal? Do you think they will be able to diagnose this issue, or will it be a fruitless exercise?

Thanks to all those that helped with part numbers etc for the key button rubber and boot light switch by the way!

Cheers,
Rob

Post by **admiral51** » 09 Oct 2008, 20:09

Hi Rob
At first glance £45 isnt a bad price if they are including a courtesy car but........................................
The price is only for diagnosis not a repair and as they are willing to let you have a car overnight/all day i would imagine they would expect to be the ones doing the repair probably at around £70 as a starting figure

From memory of your cars problems i dont think its the bitron as it is responding to various signals it is recieving and reacting correctly therefore it has to be down to the relays/contacts or a duff live/earth issue or one fan itself is faulty

If swopping relays still have the same fan running then those relays are good

I may be wrong here and im sure Clogzz will put me right but if the bitron is allowing the A/C to run without both fans running then i would imagine that as far as the bitron is aware it has sent power to both fans and has not detected a break in the supply so it will allow the A/C to run .
The only thing the bitron cant know is if the fans are really running

Could well be worth an auto electrictian to check the feed to the relays/fans as atleast you can then start from a point that you know what is GOOD

.Dont forget to print off Clogzz's fan wiring diagram so they know what should be happening

If it proves the fans to be at fault then a garage will charge a small fortune to do this replacement but it can be done yourself although tis a bit fiddly and remember the blade fixing screw is left hand thread so comes undone the wrong way

Colin

Nuneatonrob · Post by **Nuneatonrob** » 10 Oct 2008, 09:36

Thanks for the feedback Admiral51!!

I may just go with the main dealer diagnostic, just to see if anything else comes up while it's there. I think if I can get a better idea from them as to where to look, then I may stand a better chance of getting the problem sorted.

I don't have any equipment to check connections etc (Multimeter and so on) so need to get somebody to do it. The main problem I have is the fact I need the car everyday for work, and not many places will do work on a saturday of this nature, so the dealer with the courtesy car is ideal.

Hopefully they will take pitty on my poor old Xsara, and tell me what's wrong so I can at least attempt to fix it myself.

Nuneatonrob · Post by **Nuneatonrob** » 17 Oct 2008, 15:24

Right then. Citroen have checked over my car, and they say that the actual fan motor itself is at fault.

They have verfied that all the wiring is good and that the relays are all working normally.

They quoted £500 to repair and replace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The diagnosis has cost me £100.

I have just ordered a complete fan set including cowling? from continental car breakers for £60. The guy there told me he sells a lot of these, and it's a common problem apparently!

The fans will be with me on Tuesday, so as soon as I can fit them, most likely next weekend now, I will let you know the outcome.

Post by **CitroJim** » 17 Oct 2008, 19:46

Yes, pretty common. The only thing wrong with them will be worn brushes. As the motors run in series on slow speed, if one is dead, the other one will appear to be also and this makes diagnosis a little more tricky. Sometimes you can tell the one with bad brushes as it'll spin a lot more freely than a good one as there is little brush pressure actiong on the commutator.

I've had exactly the same on my Activa. One motor was weak and running sklowly and this dragged the other one down.

The motors are sealed units but are amenable to being dismantled carefully with a small cold chisel

I'm looking into the possibility of replacing brushes and restoring normality.