Shaky Xantia

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ids987
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Post by ids987 »

Well, I had the O/S driveshaft done, and (perhaps predictably), it hasn't fixed the problem. It seems to get worse after driving for a bit, so presumably something heating up and grease thinning out (or maybe even running dry). It also seems to be quite noisy, but this depends on road surface. I noticed on one occasion when I "drove" it with the wheel off the ground that the nearside wheel is sometimes a bit noisy. I initially thought it might be something catching the ABS ring (that kind of "notchy" sound), but it didn't do it the next time I tried it. Maybe it was "cold" the second time. Now starting to think it's most likely the wheel bearing or possibly outer CV joint on the Nearside. The shake / wobble / vibaration feels so heavy, that I think it has to be something big and heavy vibrating (like a wheel).
It also "feels" as though the shaking is mostly side to side. As an aside, there is also perceptible play in the nearside steering - both with the wheel on and off the ground. This appears to be coming from the rack end of the nearside track rod. There has been some play in this for as long as I have had the car though - before the last MOT. I guess this could cause vibration to some extent, but not sure if it would be of this nature (specific speed band etc), also, wouldn't this be felt through the steering wheel, and knock audibly whilst vibrating.

Again, thoughts and opinions gratefully received !

Ian
evildiesels
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Post by evildiesels »

Ian, did your mechanics check both inner Tripod joints for wear?? The symptoms you describe are exactly what I had with a 98 Xantia, it was the inner tripod joint on the drivers side, they should have checked instead of just replacing for the sake of it
ids987
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Post by ids987 »

evildiesels wrote:Ian, did your mechanics check both inner Tripod joints for wear?? The symptoms you describe are exactly what I had with a 98 Xantia, it was the inner tripod joint on the drivers side, they should have checked instead of just replacing for the sake of it
To be honest, I don't think so. They didn't commit to a diagnosis of the problem though, so I can't really hold them to blame. It was after they initially looked at it (and wouldn't commit) that the ABS ring fell off the O/S driveshaft. As I suspected that the inner CV on that side was the most likely thing, and they wouldn't do just the outer CV anyway, I had them change the whole driveshaft. I had the N/S driveshaft done by the same place just over a year ago. Now remember that I kerbed the nearside wheel moderately hard on a roundabout a few weeks before I noticed the vibration. I haven't previously connected the two, as the symptoms were not there immediately afterwards, but now wonder if I might have damaged either the outer CV joint or the wheel bearing. If I drive it with the N/S wheel off the ground, it seems noisy in that area. Also now seems like the vibration is there when I drive it with the N/S wheel off the ground. Previously it seemed to be the O/S.........
I'm toying with taking the N/S hub apart, and remove and inspect the N/S driveshaft as well - if I can ever find the time. From other posts though, it seems like the wheel bearings are a real palaver to remove and replace.
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Post by jgra1 »

DS easy enough to do on that side ids..

gearbox oil out, and - with help- undo the huge hub nut and split the outer lower-arm joint, that should be it really...

I am writing in a rush so have probably forgotten something ;)

John

when I had this problem on a friends car, that inner tri joint was just a bunch of loose needles hanging about in the rubber boot...
Steviebax
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Post by Steviebax »

Hi.

I've just replaced the driverside driveshaft on my R reg xantia.

The symptoms were exactly the same as described. Shaking under strain through speed of 20 - 50 mph.

The inner cv joint was completely shot.

To check ... jack up the car and hold the driveshaft on both sides of the inner cv joint and turn them in opposite directions. IF there is play in the cv joint then it's shot...if there is a clicking or tapping noise coming out of the joint then it's shot.

The above is on the driverside where the inner cv joint goes into the central bearing carrier on the driveshaft.

On the passenger side simply hold the joint and attempt to turn the driveshaft.

My car hasn't got abs so it was a little simpler to change. With cars with abs make sure you get the correct driveshaft and that you undo the abs sensor etc.

Problems l had::

The hub nut is a 35mm - which is a odd size. I eventually found one in Camberley motor factors.

The lower suspension bolt is a 22mm and the nuts holding the central bearing is 11mm.

You'll need a half inch bar to undo the hub nut as it's damn tight and needs to be done up tightly aswell.

I got my driveshaft from GSF - German swedish and french - for £46 inc vat. You pay a £25 surcharge ontop of this which you get back when you give them your old driveshaft. They refurb old driveshafts.

http://www.gsfcarparts.com/

Get yourself a torque wrench and axle stands.

Slacken the hub nut whilst the handbrake is on and the wheel is on the ground.

To undo the lowerballjoint - the bottom of the balljoint bolt should have a allen key hole in it to hold it whilst you undo the nut.

I found it easy to undo if l undo the nut whilst the wheel is still on the ground and the weight of the car is on the ball joint - saves having to use the allen key to stop the bolt turning. Take the nut off completely then jack up the car and support on axle stands.

Take the driveshaft out of the hub.

If on the driveside slacken the two small inner bearing bolts about halfway along the shaft on the innerside of the engine mount bracket - enough so you can push them in and turn them 90 degrees to unlock the driveshaft.

Place a bowl under the gearbox and remove the driveshaft gently. Gear box fluid will hopefully fall into the bowl if you've got it in the right place. Under where the driveshaft goes into the gearbox obviously.

Refitting is the reverse of removal.

Just make sure the driveshaft is pushed in as much as you can and then tighting everything back up.

Don't over tighten the two small central bearing bolts.

The lowerball joint needs to be about 35 pound/ft torque.

The hub nut needs to be about 240 pound/ft but fortunately the gsf nut had a (N) north and (S) south on it. So l turned it as much as l could until the (N) was straight up - so l know the torque is right - with a bar obviously.

I poured the collected oil through a filter back into the gearbox.

The filler hole on my Xantia is the biggest bolt you can see on the passenger side of the gearbox cover. Looking from the inside of the passenger front wheel arch.

Use a piece of piping to make this easier.

All in all - took about 2 and a half hours to do it.


Hope this helped somebody.

Steve

ps.

Bit of advice - if you get stressed because of a tight nut or something ?? Stop, spray it with WD40, and have a cup of tea to lower your blood pressure before giving it another go. Helps clear your head.
jgra1
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Post by jgra1 »

agree with all including the stand back and breathe bit :)


must admit, my drivers side 35mm came undone, but passenger side wouldnt, broke a 1/2 drive :(

J
ids987
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Post by ids987 »

Many thanks for the advice and help. Definitely time to get my hands dirty again. Just got to find the time to do it now. I will post up again once I've got stuck in !
I think I've got the right size socket. I bought it to do the nearside DS over a year ago - but ended up paying a garage to do it. I will check for side to side and rotational play first. If I can't feel anything, I think I will still pull the driveshaft for inspection.

Cheers:
Ian
ids987
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Post by ids987 »

By way of an update....
I had a good grope around, and could definitely feel play from the triax joint of the nearside driveshaft. On enquiring at GSF, the driveshafts for my Xantia seem to be the most expensive at around a hundred quid ex VAT.
The garage who replaced the N/S driveshaft last year, and who recently replaced the O/S driveshaft, gave me a discounted offer, so I had them change it in the end. As the torque settings are beyond my torque wrench etc, it turned out not to be worthwhile doing it myself. Normal service is now resumed.

Thanks again to all who contributed.

Ian
jgra1
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Post by jgra1 »

well done :)
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reblack68
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Post by reblack68 »

I finally cured mine with a new driveshaft. I'll

I tried rotating the shafts by hand, feeling for play and running the car in gear on the hoist. I even let the wishbone down on a pole to put the shafts at their normal running angle but there was still no clue.

I was forced to separate the shafts and inspect the insides of the pots. It turned out to be the O/S one. There was a deep groove in one face, it felt like it might have been made by a stray needle roller but there didn't seem to be any missing or displaced. That did explain why the shaking only happened in the straight ahead position though.

According to the motor factor there are two possible numbers of ABS teeth and the higher number of teeth (48 I think) has two possible ring diameters- 90mm or 99mm. Mine was the 99mm version. It would be worth arming yourself with this information before phoning around.

It cost me £70 with the old unit returned, which is a good bit cheaper than GSF and Euro seemed to be.
Richard

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KevMayer
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Post by KevMayer »

Glad it's sorted.l
Cheers, Kev

02 plate C5 2.2 Hdi Exclusive SE (now 170k miles 03/21).

Used to have:- Xantia 1.9 TurboD SX. 1996 Blue & 1998 Silver Activa. + 1992 BX TZD Turbo.
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Post by ACTIVE8 »

jgra1 wrote:agree with all including the stand back and breathe bit :)


must admit, my drivers side 35mm came undone, but passenger side wouldnt, broke a 1/2 drive :(

J
Reminds of a mate who in the past, used a rachet on the rear hub nuts on his beetle these are 36mm and done up F.T.

He used a long bar on it, I think it was a cut down scaffold bar, the nut came undone, and the rachet still worked afterwards, but it was a Snap On one.
ACTIVA

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