Bad Paintwork on ZX

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

well i used to work for a company in DEAL KENT years gone by, the company had a contract with TOYOTA to repaire all cars that had sustained transit damage in shipping,

we used to re/spray 9 out of 10 brand new cars comming into the country, myself and the other paint sprayer were re/spraying 25 cars a day,they were tring to up that to 27, and friday was rectification jobs, this was a production line,

so maybe yours had some PDI paint work

regards malcolm
the_weaver
Posts: 438
Joined: 13 May 2008, 00:01
Location: UK
My Cars:

Post by the_weaver »

My brother confirms that the car was never resprayed when he owned it but as you say it could have been done before delivery.

I've bought some T-CUT Metallic Colour Restorer which I'm going to try on a bit of the bonnet to see if it will improve the white haze. On the label it says "Do not apply if lacquer top coat is damaged". So it's ok for the clear coat but for some reason it must be bad for the colour coat. Maybe they're worried about people rubbing through the thin colour coat.

Paul
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

i dont belive in these new fangled coloured T CUTs, i think they are just a con, and why did you go for the metalic one,

also as i said earlyer any experimentation do were it dont show,(just in case)

regards malcolm
jeremy
Posts: 3959
Joined: 20 Oct 2002, 16:00
Location: Hampshire, UK
My Cars:
x 2

Post by jeremy »

I wonder if the 'Laquer top coat' referred to in those instructions is in fact the clear coat.

Not clear as some coloured paint finishes are referred to as 'Laquer' - which I'd generally thought was a posh term for paint.

I'd try a small bit and see what happens - you haven't got much to loose.
jeremy
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49518
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6156
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

jeremy wrote:I wonder if the 'Laquer top coat' referred to in those instructions is in fact the clear coat.
Yes, as far as I know, even though the paint is not metallic, the top coat will be lacquer. There was a problem with the lacquer coat on early 90s Pugs (and Citroens also I guess) and the peeling was a very common problem. I had the same problem on my old red 205GTi.

Only long-term cure is to strip it off and reapply a clear lacquer coat as the paint underneath is not glossy.
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
uncle buck
Posts: 591
Joined: 10 Jan 2008, 19:53
Location: UK - North east
My Cars:
x 5

Post by uncle buck »

Weaver,
All you can do is to give it a go & see how it come up....as I said earlier it will never be perfect but you may be able to disguise some of the patches of flaking lacquer to make the car look a bit nicer.

Regarding coloured T Cut...I haven't really used it but I do use coloured polish on the Xsara. The car is metallic red (Wicked Red) & the polish does hide any small scratches...also any stone chips that would normally fill with white polish & become apparent are filled with the red polish & this helps disguise them.

Cheers.
2006 C4 1.6 HDi 16V (92) non FAP
2001 Xsara II 1.4 LX
2001 Renault Laguna II 1.9dCi Sport Tourer
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

another way if you can find a company that do SODA blasting, i looked into this a couple of years ago and found some video footage of it in action, very impresive, once you master it you can take the surface (paint) down layer by layer without damaging the substrate (next layer/s down), one of the clips i saw showed an MGB beeing stripped right down to bare metal, without removing any of the external fixtures and fittings, like bright work and even glass and plastic,
regards malcolm
User avatar
Xaccers
Posts: 7654
Joined: 07 Feb 2007, 23:46
Location: Milling around Milton Keynes
My Cars:
x 184

Post by Xaccers »

citrojim wrote:
jeremy wrote:I wonder if the 'Laquer top coat' referred to in those instructions is in fact the clear coat.
Yes, as far as I know, even though the paint is not metallic, the top coat will be lacquer. There was a problem with the lacquer coat on early 90s Pugs (and Citroens also I guess) and the peeling was a very common problem. I had the same problem on my old red 205GTi.

Only long-term cure is to strip it off and reapply a clear lacquer coat as the paint underneath is not glossy.
That's happening to Cassy's driver's door, what's the best way to strip the laquer off? (other than just picking at it or letting it peal itself off)
1.9TD+ SX Xantia Estate (Cassy) running on 100% veg
1.9TD SX Xantia Hatchback (Jenny) running on 100% veg for sale
Laguna II 2.0dCi Privilege (Monty)

DIY sphere tool
the_weaver
Posts: 438
Joined: 13 May 2008, 00:01
Location: UK
My Cars:

Post by the_weaver »

The metallic T-CUT I bought is not one of the ones that contains colour. It's just a new version of the original T-CUT which is supposed to be for metallic paint. I chose metallic T-CUT because metallic paint uses basecoat and clearcoat which is the same paint system as on my ZX even though the basecoat is not metallic. I'm not sure what the difference is but if there's a product that's intended for metallic and another one (original T-CUT) that's intended for solid colours then I feel safer going for the metallic one.

Xac - getting the lacquer off without taking the basecoat off as well is the big problem. I'm going to try picking, scraping, wet and dry etc. There's a lot of good advice in this post on the procedures to use, including the use of carbolic soap on the wet and dry. I did some research on this and it turns out that soap has the effect of making the grit on the wet and dry finer. So, thanks for that tip Malcolm.

I'm a bit concerned to hear that this clearcoat peeling off is a common problem on Pugs and Citroens. This might mean that I'm going to have recurring problems. I had assumed that lack of regular waxing was the cause of my current problem and that once I fixed the problem then a coat of wax would prevent further problems. However if it's dodgy paint then it might continue to be a problem even with the protection of the wax.

SODA blasting sounds interesting but it's probably not worth it for a 15 year old car. I'm looking for the cheap and cheerful home remedy. What about a vinyl roof kit! Would I be banned from the forum for putting one of these on a ZX?

I heard somewhere that the hatch on a ZX is an aluminium casting. Does anybody know if this is correct? If it's aluminium then at least I won't get rust if the basecoat starts falling off.

Paul
uncle buck
Posts: 591
Joined: 10 Jan 2008, 19:53
Location: UK - North east
My Cars:
x 5

Post by uncle buck »

Hi,
I believe that the metallic version of T cut is just a bit finer & less abrasive...I have never had a problem using ordinary T cut on lacquer though.

The hatch on the ZX is plastic.
the_weaver wrote: ....I'm looking for the cheap and cheerful home remedy....
If your attempts with the Tcut don't give a satisfactory result why don't you hand paint the car :shock:

Now before you dismiss this one of the best finishes I have ever seen on a car was a result of hand painting....the finish was flawless & glass flat.

You would paint the car & then let the paint fully harden (approx 2 weeks) then you would wet flat it & then bring it up with rubbing compound..the finish would be as good as a spray job at a fraction of the price.

Worth a thought if you want a cheap result!

Cheers.
2006 C4 1.6 HDi 16V (92) non FAP
2001 Xsara II 1.4 LX
2001 Renault Laguna II 1.9dCi Sport Tourer
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49518
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6156
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

I hand painted my very first car. Back in those days there was a product called (if I remember rightly - it was a long time ago :( ) "Re-Paint". This was especially designed for hand painting cars. It was excellent stuff.

I'm not sure if this or a similar product is still available? Re-Paint was available in popular car colours of the time so matching the Old English White of my Mini was no bother at all.

I've heard that exellent results can even be obtained using ordinarly household paint but I'll reserve judgement on that :roll:

Never forget that the finest coach enamels are always applied by hand and are among some of the very finest of finishes :)
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25362
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 13:30
Location: Washington
My Cars: Mazda 6
Ooops.
Previously:
2009 Honda Civic :(
C5, C5, Xantia, BX, GS, Visa.
R4, R11TXE, R14, R30TX
x 4888

Post by myglaren »

I hand painted my GS and I have an idea it was Re-Paint that I used, though can't be sure as there was another one around at the time the name of which escapes me for the moment.

I did take about ten days to do it in a spotless garage with the doors sealed and the floor wetted.

It came up beautifully but I will just say that I am a time-served painter and decorator and had very good tools to work with and went to quite a lot of effort to ensure a good result. It was well worth it though.
jeremy
Posts: 3959
Joined: 20 Oct 2002, 16:00
Location: Hampshire, UK
My Cars:
x 2

Post by jeremy »

Synthetic enamel can be brush painted successfully - its used for spraying large things like lorry trailers - where its slow drying enables a wet edge to be kept until the job is finished. Its forgiving stuff - I've been using it to paint various bits of Land Rover (not the body itself) and find I can thin it with virtually anything - from White Spirit - to so called Standard Thinners which evaporates a bit quicker - making the stuff less likely to run.

The Land Rover people say that a good finish can be achieved with a roller. It may be so good that I've noticed it to comment on.

There are many articles on peoples individual methods to be found on the internet.
jeremy
uncle buck
Posts: 591
Joined: 10 Jan 2008, 19:53
Location: UK - North east
My Cars:
x 5

Post by uncle buck »

citrojim wrote:I hand painted my very first car. Back in those days there was a product called (if I remember rightly - it was a long time ago :( ) "Re-Paint". This was especially designed for hand painting cars. It was excellent stuff.
I'm not sure if this or a similar product is still available?
Ahh the memories come flooding back...."Re-Paint" & "Tekaloid" ...those were the days ehh....

I can remember my Dad painting his Austin A30 in the street with dark blue Tekaloid... :) ....as it happens both Re-paint & Tekaloid are still available if you look on the web.

A quick search on the web brings up a lot about hand painting cars...lots of tips & tricks including using a foam roller to apply the paint.

I think with a little patience & some elbow grease you would achieve a great finish.

Cheers.
2006 C4 1.6 HDi 16V (92) non FAP
2001 Xsara II 1.4 LX
2001 Renault Laguna II 1.9dCi Sport Tourer
User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25362
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 13:30
Location: Washington
My Cars: Mazda 6
Ooops.
Previously:
2009 Honda Civic :(
C5, C5, Xantia, BX, GS, Visa.
R4, R11TXE, R14, R30TX
x 4888

Post by myglaren »

Tekaloid was the one I used, thanks for the reminder. Excellent stuff.
Post Reply