R reg 1.9TD Xantia drive belt pulley problem!!

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 03 Sep 2008, 20:32

If you look at this picture of the pulley carrier;

http://i14.ebayimg.com/06/i/001/08/79/9415_1.JPG

you'll see there's little chance of the end pulley being out of alignment.
More likely though, any unwanted movement COULD be on the main pivot
where it's mounted onto the separate engine casting bracket upon which
all the various pulleyed drives are mounted onto (AC pump, alternator and
HP pump).

The securing pivot bolt could even in fact be the wrong diameter one!!

The material of the pulley is plastic on the one I've seen, but the original
as fitted by Citroen is metal!

Andrew

Post by **admiral51** » 03 Sep 2008, 21:45

Thanks for that Andrew i will try and put my theory into a proper sentence now

As you say it seems unlikely that the roller is out of alignment or not running true in the vertical in relation to the carrier- but if the carrier arm was not sat in its correct position ie standing proud by approx 2-3mm this in turn would put the roller out of alignment with all the pulleys by 2-3mm

1.is this possible to have happened
2.would it likely have been moved when the cambelt/water pump and aux belt were done 2000miles ago
3.would this be enough stress on the roller to bend it out of true cause it not to roll and possibly break up
4.can you tell im clutching at straws here

Colin

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 03 Sep 2008, 22:10

There's a boss about 20mm in diameter and about 10mm deep off the
rear face of the carrier (hidden in the pic under the red cap) that plugs
into a snug recess in the main casting and a tiny (less than a 1mm)
washer between the mating face and a chunky 95mm long bolt 12mm in
diameter through the lot so little chance of getting it really out of whack.

The only possibility is the actual bush in the carrier the main bolt runs
through has collapsed but from what I understand, it's all new...

Don't forget, there's a damned strong and short spring braced against it
and a lug on the main casting/housing which will be enough to find any
weakness in the alignment!

The whole lot will have had to be disturbed if the aux belt had to come
off to get at the timing belt. The carrier in question here braces onto the
main ribbed belt and the eccentric idler - what state is this BTW?

Andrew

Post by **admiral51** » 03 Sep 2008, 22:38

apart from the belt the only new part was the roller itself the one in your picture the main carrier that bolts on near the HP and alternater has not been replaced or from what i can tell been removed to fit the new part/belt although the same grease monkey did the cambelt etc so im wondering if the main carrier arm has not been position correctly or as you say the bush in it has collapsed
i really should be doing this sort of thing myself but only having tp pay out for parts and it was done while the car was at work...........

hopefully will find out more tomorrow but at least it gives me something to fire at him

Colin

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 03 Sep 2008, 23:17

Therein could lie your problem!

If I understand things then, the main pulley carrier (the whole casting with
the attached pulley as pictured in the Gates 'Belt Tensioner Unit' pic) IS
THE ORIGINAL FITTED before the recent damage and repair work?

There's every chance the main wear still exists in the bearing around which
the lot pivots and is braced constantly under strain by the big spring. I can
see now that only the pulley damaged was just removed and renewed off
the carrier, not the whole carrier assembly; nothing wrong with doing that,
as the broken item was renewed. Unfortunately it looks like the reason for
the breakage in the first place remains hidden and waiting to show itself
again, as it seems is the case for you today...

Andrew

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 03 Sep 2008, 23:38

BTW Colin. pm sent!

Andrew

Post by **admiral51** » 03 Sep 2008, 23:43

Thanks Andrew that is a good deal

sorry it took me so long to explain what had been damaged and replaced but not knowing myself what the part was i end up using laymans terms not techno speak

what was wrong with the old fan belt and tighten via the alternator bracket design i can manage that

Colin

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 04 Sep 2008, 00:12

I'm surprised anyone's following my meanderings - laymans' terms
would be great but alas there's too many damned bits that could all be
called loads of different things!!

If you can get access to it (half the battle, and best done through the
wheelarch with the wheel and plastic liner removed) see how much
wobble/play there appears to be on the swiveling pulley carrier - yes
the broken one a big spring is attached to* as this will give you some
idea of movement; both intended and unexpected!!

*I'm assuming of course you have the big spring attached amongst the
pulleys and brackets - you should be able to see it by looking down below
the hydraulic pump, it's almost standing on end and bolted onto a lug
beside the HP pump and the reverse of the pulley carrier (the Gates part!)

I miss the one swing arc alternator with a bracket one bolt went through
to brace the belt too. Citroen used to use two parallel belts on the same
pulleys so if one snapped there was still service for the hydraulics and
electrics rather than an inch wide ribbed belt that'll do it's damndest to
entwine itself round the crankshaft pulley and timing belt...

NASA does it with designed and built in redundancy so there's a back up
to every system. Guess you can't go round to Halfords on a Sunday
afternoon to get a working Oxygen supply when you're zapping around
the world at 1000's of miles an hour!!

Andrew

Post by **admiral51** » 04 Sep 2008, 21:17

Just returned home from what i can only describe as a real bad day at work and to round the day off nicely i found the grease monkey had not even opened the bonnet- so much for it being his top priority

Another day tomorrow with no action and its time to get my hands dirty or find someone more reliable

Colin

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 04 Sep 2008, 21:57

Getting your hands dirty may be the only answer to stop any additional
wasted expense although we are climatically challenged at the moment
with no end to the torture in sight!

Some reference pics of new bits, including THAT spring!!

http://i4.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/bf/a1/5200_1.JPG
http://i24.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/c2/8e/2dab_1.JPG

Andrew

andycarter · Post by **andycarter** » 13 Sep 2008, 20:45

There are a number of different alternators variants, I know of at least two with 4mm difference between their pulley positions.

It might be that someone has replaced the aternator in the past with the wrong type and this is throwing the belt off.

Post by **CitroJim** » 13 Sep 2008, 21:01

andycarter wrote:There are a number of different alternators variants, I know of at least two with 4mm difference between their pulley positions.

I had precisely this on my first Activa Andy. The aux belt ran a groove out on the HP pump all because of the wrong alternator being fitted.

Xantia alternators are a minefield and you can't rely on a factors supplying the right one even when given precise model and year

Post by **admiral51** » 14 Sep 2008, 19:49

Its now been fixed

If i remeber what my new 8) 8) mechanic said it was the the main bush behind the carrier arm that had given up and was allowing the roller to be pushed out of alignment and causing the damage

thanks for all your replies once again proving to be invaluable

Colin

Post by **CitroJim** » 15 Sep 2008, 12:59

Excellent news Colin

The bit that was gone was the inner roller the needle bearings in the tensioner proper work against. It is staggering just how badly this bush can become gouged and damaged when the bearings fail.

Good luck on the MOT on the other one!

Gregg1100 · Post by **Gregg1100** » 30 Dec 2008, 15:01

Hi,
I have an extremely noisy idler bearing problem--been getting worse.
I took the o/s wheel off today and a bit of the plastic liner in wheel arch.
How the dickens do you get at it ??????
As Colin said, what was wrong with a threaded bolt, that you screwed in one way to slacken, and out to tension the belt. Talk about throwing problems at a easy practice. I took a look at the job, put the wheel back on and said stuff it. The tax is due end of next month, it can stay there till then-will put it in garden till the warmer weather arrives (??), or I get up a bit of interest. Sorry about the whinge chaps, but had enough of frog cars now.
Greg