405 - Sensible Purchase?

This is the Forum for all your Peugeot Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
stevenc75
Posts: 77
Joined: 26 Jun 2008, 23:14
Location:
My Cars:

405 - Sensible Purchase?

Post by stevenc75 »

Hi guys,

This is my first post on the forum. I currently drive a little 97 Saxo 1.1 but want to change to something larger and diesel. A 93 405 GRD has caught my eye locally. It's out of mot and is pretty rough cosmetically.

Basically I'm looking for some advice as I've settled on an older 405 saloon. I'm told that these cars are capable of big mileage as long as they are serviced regularly. The clock on this particular car shows just over 58k. I have no idea if that is accurate or not. It was an old mans car. The current owner told me by email that the box is a bit noisy although the engine is good. The drivers seat isn't split (they do that at high miles, right?) and all the electrics are good. What sort of things should I be looking for and how much would this car be worth?

Any pointers would be appreciated. :D
User avatar
AndersDK
Posts: 6060
Joined: 21 Feb 2003, 04:56
Location: Denmark
My Cars:
x 1

Post by AndersDK »

The 405 is very similar in layout and mechanical principles used - to your Saxo - except everything is bigger.

any '93 car would have rust in the chassisbody :wink:
This is beyound any doubts the most expensive to repair
so thats your main issue : look for rust in the chassisbody.
front & rear inner wings (wheel arches)
body sidepanels under the doors - both sides
endpieces of the sidepanels inside the wheelarches

You must testdrive it to find out if the steering, suspension and brakes are working to scratch.

What you should avoid wasting your time on :
dont discuss missing lights or indicators
dont discuss a missing or broken door/wing mirror
dont discuss rusty covers or details on the engine

as these bits are the most simple to repair.
But sum it up on the total of your impression of the car.

The GRD is a slow car compared to Your lightfooted Saxo.
The diesel engine also has a very different power scheme from your Saxo 1.1 engine.
Its got bottom grunt, but nothing beyond 4000rpm - nothing at all.
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
stevenc75
Posts: 77
Joined: 26 Jun 2008, 23:14
Location:
My Cars:

Post by stevenc75 »

Thanks for the reply. :)

Unfortunately the car in question is doomed as the owner reckons that it's worth more as scrap than it is as a going concern. The downside of high scrap values... It's a shame as I'm certain that it has more life left in it.

However, I did get a spin in a work colleagues 405 today. I'm unsure which model it is but it is a non-turbo diesel. You're right about the lack of poke, I'm not sure I could live with that on a daily basis. In comparison the Saxo feels much more lively and nippy. On the other hand it was very comfortable and roomy and this one is approaching 250k with no major work. Shame it's not for sale...

So the search continues for a cheap TD 405 or early 406.
r.welfare
Posts: 46
Joined: 12 Apr 2008, 13:01
Location: Newbury, Berkshire
My Cars:

Post by r.welfare »

TD saloons are very cheap, estates less so. I would counsel that a 1.9TD 406 is a fair bit slower than a 405 with the same engine (I've owned both!), being much heavier. More refined and interior is better-built on the newer car, although I find the seats not as comfortable.

Anyway, main things to look for on a TD 405:

- Rust at the bottom of the inner wheelarches where they meet the floor, behind the front suspension struts; either end of the sills; behind the headlights on the horizontal inner wing panels; in the boot, specifically around the rear shock absorber mountings. Be wary that a 405, like any other Citroen/Peugeot product of it's age, doesn't tend to show rust on the upper bodywork - but check around the sunroof (if fitted), windscreen seal and insides of the front door frames, where they meet the inner rubber seal next to the screen pillar.

- Mechanically, the critical thing with the 1.9TD is to check that the head gasket hasn't gone, and/or the cylinder head isn't cracked. Best ways to check are:

1) see if there's proof of change of coolant every 2 years (regular coolant changes on this engine are critical to long life) - I'd also check the date stamped on top of the radiator too. If its more than 10yrs ago, it will be past it's best;
2) the heater puts out good heat on the hottest setting (it should feel like your face is melting if it's a goodun! :lol: );
3) the temp gauge should rise to 90 after about 5-10min driving, drop to 80 (thermostat opening) and then stay there. Watch carefully to see if it rises when accelerating hard;
4) after testdrive, wait 30-45min then open the radiator cap. There should only be a small "gush" of released pressure, and no spurting of water. Look at the colour of the coolant too, if it's high enough - cappucino-type stuff is bad news.

Make sure it starts OK hot and cold, without too much cranking. White smoke/rough running on a cold start is only acceptable if it lasts for less than a couple of seconds. Otherwise, suspect air in the fuel system, glowplugs, or a dying fuel pump.

There should be a decent shove of acceleration between 2000-4000rpm. There should be a faint turbo whistle only; if you can really hear it, it may just be an air leak, but it may also be a worn turbo from lack of regular oil changes.

It should stop, steer and ride really well. Check all electrical toys. The usual used car checks then apply :wink:

Oh, and go for a Phase 2 model, much better built - easiest way to tell is that the radio aerial should be on the roof, and the heater controls are sliders, rather than rotary knobs. Phase 1 cars had a 1769cc turbo engine, rather than 1905cc, too.

£500 should buy you a superb Ph2 TD saloon. Buy on condition and service history rather than age and specification, and you'll be fine. My GLDT is a belter - but unfortunately not for sale!
Last edited by r.welfare on 02 Jul 2008, 12:10, edited 1 time in total.
'93 405 Hunter TD estate
stevenc75
Posts: 77
Joined: 26 Jun 2008, 23:14
Location:
My Cars:

Post by stevenc75 »

Lots of useful advice there, thanks very much. If I could get a decent phase 2 TD for £500 I'd be very happy indeed.
r.welfare
Posts: 46
Joined: 12 Apr 2008, 13:01
Location: Newbury, Berkshire
My Cars:

Post by r.welfare »

There's nothing really on eBay at the moment that looks that promising to me (but I am critical!) - the best seems to be an L-plate GRDT in London, but I'd say it was overpriced at £750; there's also a nice-looking GLDT in Dewsbury for £595. Depends where you are located, of course! Alternatively Autotrader, or the FreeAds, may throw up some?

Driver's seat shouldn't split at low miles, unless it is a higher-spec version with bigger side bolsters, and three horizontal stitched seams - my 180k mile Hunter has the usual split along the middle of the three seams on the seat base, whereas my 128k Hunter doesn't - one reason why I swapped the seats! My 193k mile GLDT saloon, which has different seats with no visible stitching except on the (vinyl) sides, is fine. The Phase 2 interiors should wear miles really well - I had a 250k mile GLDT estate last year, and that looked pretty much like new; even I was surprised!

Gearbox-wise, a little noise in 5th is normal I think, sometimes 5th can be problematic. Difficulty engaging other gears is usually down to the selector bushes, which I believe are plastic.

High scrap prices are a downside at the moment - I was able to buy back my GLDT last year from the guy I'd sold it to (who had run it to the end of the MOT, then left it in his garden for 5 months) for £50! Went straight through another MOT needing only one bulb too...you'll find that most of the remaining 405s out there for sale are diesel; the petrol ones just get scrapped. A real shame.

I wouldn't drive anything else now - one saloon, two estates, all with the same mechanical spec! :wink:
'93 405 Hunter TD estate
evilally
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 742
Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 22:39
Location: Clydebank, Near Glasgow.
My Cars:
x 3

Post by evilally »

I would also check for leaks, they seem prone to them. Mine had leaks caused by the following....

Both rear light cluster seals
Boot lock seals
Sunroof drain pipes needed cleared
The mastic between the rear pilars and roof had degraded letting in water

Check electrics carefully, central locking etc.

So far, I've done 5,000 miles with no problems. The turbo actually has some reasonable poke as well. Turbo models nearly always have a bosch injector pump, allowing you to run some percentage of veg oil :D
'96 405 1.6 GLX with 306 GTI engine on Cat cams @ 195bhp

'05 RenaultSport Clio 182 Cup, 102k

'97 406 1.9TD, 314k.
r.welfare
Posts: 46
Joined: 12 Apr 2008, 13:01
Location: Newbury, Berkshire
My Cars:

Post by r.welfare »

Whereabouts were your roof/pillar water leaks, evilally? I've just noticed that my Hunter's headlining was damp on the offside near the rear side window, and is beginning to sag...tough job to remove the headlining?
'93 405 Hunter TD estate
evilally
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 742
Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 22:39
Location: Clydebank, Near Glasgow.
My Cars:
x 3

Post by evilally »

Take a look at the seem between the rear pillar and the roof. It's at the same height as the top of the door and about 20cm long. I noticed on both sides of mine that the paintwork was cracked along the seem. Apparently, it's just mastic between the panels and it degrades over time. I just filled the seem up with some mastic and it's sorted.

I only dropped the headlining at the back to troubleshoot, it wasn't actually required to fix the problem. It's easy enough, take the grab handles off and the interior light. You will need to take the plastic trim off the pillars and roof as well, be careful as the clips break very easily.

Edit: Just noticed you have an estate, so I don't know if any of the above is applicable or not! I would say the other thing to check is the seal at the bottom of the aerial.
'96 405 1.6 GLX with 306 GTI engine on Cat cams @ 195bhp

'05 RenaultSport Clio 182 Cup, 102k

'97 406 1.9TD, 314k.
Post Reply