1.9 Td against Hdi

Unread post by **elma** » 11 Mar 2008, 15:48

As I'm thinking about another Xantia at the minute Im debating these engines.

I've never driven an Hdi so am a little disadvantaged.
Before I go test drive them theres things I need to know anyway, it might not be a suitable engine for me anyway.
Veg oils not a factor, I know Hdi can't use it

Has anyone here had both?
If so what did you think of each?

I have heard mixed reports so far.
Ranging from Hdi/Tdi is awful/brillliant.
Also that early Hdi are bad and late are good.
Everyone I know who has worked on them says Hdi are tricky engines, is this true?

steelcityuk · Unread post by **steelcityuk** » 11 Mar 2008, 16:02

I've owned, 1.9TD, 110 HDi, 2.1TD and 2.5TD.

For me the HDi seemed very flat, no sudden surge as the turbo came on to boost, also at just above tickover it seemed gutless whereas all the old style TDs give a good shove when boost arrives. However the HDi was very economical and a great cruiser.

As for trickiness, there's somethings that cost enough to write the car off if they go wrong. The lift pump in the tank can shed metal particles that find their way into the injector pump and injectors writing them off. Due to the pressures involved the Haynes book advises against working on the injection system.

I think the 2.1 is a great engine, enough power but reasonably straight forward technology.

Personally I'd go for a test drive an see what you prefer.

Steve.

Unread post by **myglaren** » 11 Mar 2008, 16:26

I think the test drive advice indisputable.

I have a C5 2.0 110 TDi and find it something of a dissapointment in comparison to the previous Xantia 1.9TD and BX 1.9D

The Xantia was without question the best of them, both for responsiveness, pulling power and economy.

KP · Unread post by KP » 11 Mar 2008, 16:49

The 2.2hdi is very good but the 2.1tds ive driven are by far the best. Its just a shame its a hassle to convert them to SVO, main reason i have the 1.9td

It was cheap, it can be thrown away if it had to be and it runs from cold on SVo without problems and is cheap to work on and service

howiedean · Unread post by **howiedean** » 11 Mar 2008, 18:19

I've had 2 HDI's and 3 1.9TD's and I can honestly say that for me the HDI wins hands down. It has effortless power from low down and excellent cruising characteristics however, the 1.9 is brilliant if you like running on Veg oil.
A test drive will make your decision easier, I don't miss that cold morning 1.9 clatter any more.

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 11 Mar 2008, 19:26

I have both versions, the HDi has much greater torque low down making driving a more relaxing experience, its also much more economical (TD 45, HDi 50+) and quicker, however should anything go wrong it could be very expensive.

By comparison the TD has significant turbo lag to the extent that pulling out of a sideroad at 10 MPH in second gear can be entertaining if you don't down-change to first. Following the turbo lag you do get a shove in the back (by this time the HDi is off in the distance) but its all over with very quickly in a narrow working rev range. However spares are plentiful and they can be run on veg oil.

You pays your money etc.

deian · Unread post by **deian** » 11 Mar 2008, 19:45

Never had a hdi myself so my opinion probably won't count... especially that I can't decide between the 1.9td and 2.1td. I'd say the 2.1td in a xantia, and a 1.9td in a zx. I'd not go for a 1.9td in a xantia. But the 2.1td is a cracker!!

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 11 Mar 2008, 19:51

steelcityuk wrote:I think the 2.1 is a great engine, enough power but reasonably straight forward technology.

I quite agree, the 2.1 is an absolute jewel of an engine, a well kept secret. It's character is totally different to the 1.9TD, which is a bit of a revver and feels more like a petrol engine when compared side by side.

The 2.1TD is a real grunting diesel from very low revs, making the gearbox practically redundant, unlike the 1.9TD that needs to be rowed along on the gears in comparason.

The 2.1TD can also return great fuel ecomomy. I regularly get over 45MPG from mine.

It is lovely and quiet at speed.

Downside is the Lucas EPIC pump. If that goes wrong it can be very expensive and it won't run any veg.

XantiaMan · Unread post by **XantiaMan** » 11 Mar 2008, 20:34

I must just have a good 1.9 TD! Plenty of go especially mid-range, good consumption for engine design and car weight, and character too! I'd only have a 110 HDI over a 1.9TD, a 90bhp is pretty pointless, doesnt go nearly as well and as mentioned, seems a bit flat. Ok for most, but i do like a bit of shove coming on boost!

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 11 Mar 2008, 20:55

XantiaMan583 wrote:I do like a bit of shove coming on boost!

That was what I was hinting at when speaking of character on the 1.9TD. That shove coming on boost is great and I love the feeling. The 2.1TD totally lacks that shove as there is no point at which you can feel it coming on boost and rather strangely this makes it feel rather flat and lacking. In fact there is bucketfuls of power there from idle almost. You only realise it when you're pootling along in a 2.1 at 25mph through town and realise you're still in 5th gear. You also realise it when you hop out of a 2.1 and into a 1.9.

The 2.1TD shares a very similar power characteristic to the 2.0CT Activa petrol engine.

deian · Unread post by **deian** » 11 Mar 2008, 21:39

The shove on the 2.1 is there for the overrtaking bit, or blowing people away on the motorway.

They did an activa 2.1 over in france i think (someone confirm), how cool would that be.

np · Unread post by np » 11 Mar 2008, 21:50

My old 1.9TD Xantia was boosted to 110 bhp ish,went very well & never let me down in nearly 70k,sold at 172k.My 406 HDI 110 was my Dads old company car & was vastly better,towing our caravan,fuel economy,refinement.Plenty of omph across the range(but theres always room for more

)Even with the TD boosted the Hdi was quicker.Now its a flyer as i had it remapped to 140 ish & 220 lbft.Still get 50 mpg + from it.The Xantia TD 40-45 mpg.I`ve only had the 1 problem with it cutting out & the management light coming on with was down to some dodgy sensors.Been fine ever since.I know all about the problems with fuel pumps,flywheels & pullys,but i`d never go back to a TD.
Sooner or later TD engine cars will become a rarity & people will have to move on to Hdi engine cars

Have a test drive in a Hdi,but not the 90 bhp.

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 11 Mar 2008, 21:54

Having also briefly owned a 2.1 at the same time as the 1.9TD and HDi, comparing peformance between the 2.1 and HDi (both 110 BHP) I found that the 2.1 had a degree of lag below 1500 RPM after which there's little difference. Bear in mind here that the HDi was an estate, the 2.1 a saloon.

deian · Unread post by **deian** » 11 Mar 2008, 22:16

One final point from me, the Hdi's are the superior engines, and are one of the most economical engines you can get.

Nutcase · Unread post by **Nutcase** » 11 Mar 2008, 22:46

Hi,
I would agree with the comment about HDi being a bit slow at low revs. I have a 2001 xsara 2.0HDI 110 (estate), and I found it a bit disappointing until the turbo kicked in at about 2200 rpm (fine after that). Also had a few gremlins with it: pinhole in vacuum canister of the turbo actuator (£300 for a recon turbo unit, plus many hours of fun removing/refitting it!), and at least 3 failed electrovalves (£40 a pop plus diagnostic hassles)

.
I did however get the ecu remapped though (SP Tuning), and I have to say it transformed the car. Turbo now kicks in at about 1800 rpm plus a modest overall power increase, and it is now both quick and very driveable

No experience of the older TDs to compare, but must say am very tempted to try a veg friendly one on cost grounds (plus the benefit of hydraulic suspension).

Regards,
Greg