Crankshaft damper

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oscarloco
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Post by oscarloco »

Sorry to hear that. You should check the crankshaft for damage (scars, wear) I think it is a hardened surface, but still is a good thing to check.

As for the Woodruff key, maybe you can make it at a shop?
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Post by MikeT »

After 30 minutes of determind fighting I won and got the part - at a cost of £20+vat ffs!

Anyway, I couldn't find a way of removing the woodruff key without removing the cambelt pulley so I'm not so eager to begin the repair right now (it's raining and there are more important things going on) but I suspect I'll have to release the cambelt tension. Is access possible with the covers on? Do I have to jack up the engine and removed the top mounting or can I skip certain procedures?

If I can, I'll examine the keyways and crank tail but to be honest, the car is going to be sold so I'm not too bothered about that.

Thanks for the ecouragement so far, I wouldn't have the confidence if it wasn't for this forum.
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Post by CitroJim »

That breaker knew the value of them Mike :( They're jolly expensive new :twisted:

One thing you can do Mike, to se if the cambelt sprocket key is OK is to rotate the crank a little backwards and forwards whilst observing the cam sprocket. If it moves solidly with the crank rotating, you're OK. If you see lost travel than you need to go further into it. One way to rotate the crank without a crank pulley in place is to lock one front wheel with a block, pop the car in 5th gear and then rotate the other front wheel. Handbrake of of course!!!

If you nee to get the cam sprocket key out, you'll have to slip off the cambelt and the only way to do that is to remove the covers. No other way in my book.

I tried to cut corners when swapping Ian's Injection Pump back along by just removing the front cover to expose the pump pulley but in the end I had to have them all off to check and ensure the timing was still right.

In theory you could just remove the rear cover, release the tensioner and pop the belt off the crank sprocket but there is a real danger of loosing the timing, you may not see or feel the belt slip a tooth or two on the pump or cam sprocket but if it does, it'll be serious. From experience, cambelts love to jump a tooth as soon as all tension is released.

Take 'em all off Mike. The extra effort is worth it just to ensure the timing remains spot-on. Trying to cut corners is just not worth the risk in this area.
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Post by MikeT »

Sorry Jim, I confused the issue. My (mangled) woodruff key had already fallen out, I found it sitting in the cam pulley when I pulled the damper. However, the key on the scrapper didn't want to give itself up so easily so I just slipped the cam pulley off as there was no belt present. That left me unsure about the replacement procedure I was facing, hence the query.

As it turned out, the key went straight in (does that suggest there may be distortion of the crank and cam pulley keyways?) but what I find interesting to note was just how tight the damper pulley was to fit back on. It wasn't rust that made it so difficult to remove (the sleeve and crank are shiny), it is a tighter fit than both my previous dampers including the scrapper we got the first one from. :? I had to drive it hard onto the tail and even now I'm not sure it's taken up fully.

Anyway, after fitting the bolt I then found myself at odds with refitting the auxillary belt :oops: It's like it's shrunk though I know it hasn't because even when I released the tension the belt wouldn't just come off - but at least I could remove the damper easily. So what's the knack with refitting, there? I know it's routed and mated in all the right places otherwise, but I can't get the final loop round the tensioner :evil: fading daylight ends play :roll:

I like the idea of testing for play by rotating the engine back and forth. Trouble is, I doubt I'll be able to get the damper off again now :x
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Post by CitroJim »

Hey, that is sounding very promising Mike :D :D If the pulley is a nice tight fit on the crank it should be OK provided you can't feel any lost motion on the pulley :)

Aux belt: They are harder to get back on. Always try to put the last bit of the belt on the biggest pulley. If it's really tight to go on with the eccentric tensioner right off, check first that the belt vees are sitting properly in all grooves on all pulleys. It really helps to have an assistant as the belt is not content to stay loosely put on all pulleys, especially the hydraulic pump and alternator.

If that is OK and you are still into difficulty, you'll have to release the automatic spring tensuioner. For this you'll need a 3/8" square drive. You can just about get to the hole in the tensioner with a short extension on your ratchet. You'll again need an assistant to hold the tensioner off whilst you pop the belt on, checking all the time that all the belt vees are sat correctly in all pulley grooves. Then release the spring tensioner and adjust the eccentric tensioner so that the spring tensioner is applying tension to the belt. Often this occurs when the eccentric tensioner is near the limit of its eccentricy.

It is possible, as a bodge, to take the eccentric tensioner right off, put the belt on and then force the eccentric tensioner back on. Not a good plan but it can get you out of a tight spot in an emergency. Damage to belt and tensioner is a risk though.

Good luck Mike :)
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Post by MikeT »

I put the belt around all but the hydraulic pump pulley, put it in gear and pushed the car which rolled the belt nicely into place - dead easy :lol:

Unfortunately, I snapped my square drive trying to turn the tensioner so it's a bit on the loose side at the moment until I can buy a new drive.

I'm not entirely happy with what I see on idle. The slack in the belt between the crank pulley and the A/C compressor appears to be misaligned though increasing the revs to a smooth fast idle straightens this out nicely. Wondering if the damper is in fact fully pushed home I overtightened the bolt - but it made no difference.

EDIT: After several miles driving something began squealing which I just assumed was belt slippage. I re-tensioned the belt but still this horrible squeal persisted. Using WD40 I sprayed around the damper bolt head and it faded to nothing - for about 10 secs. Another good dose quietend it again but for how long.

I assume the squeal is metal friction somewhere between the bolt, the washer and the damper :?

EDIT 2: Lub'ing it lasts until next startup then the squeal is back if not before. Poor aim and I squirted the outer edge of the damper and the effect was more immediate. Therefore, it is not the bolt/washer friction (thankfully) but I'm now thinking it's the rubber that's giving. I now recall the scrappy hammering at the outer edge in an attempt to dislodge it off the donor car. I'll mark it tomorrow and see if it is indeed slipping. Damper number four coming up? :cry: It's supposedly being sold on Wednesday.
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Post by MikeT »

Seems editing a post doesn't flag as it as a new post, so bump :lol:
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Post by AndersDK »

Here I'm turning my back to you - so you are ready to give me a good sharp kick in my @rse :lol:

Honest what have all this messing around cost you in time and money ?
What is a new genuine damper ?





















Anyone : quick - where is the exit ?
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Post by MikeT »

{adopts a Johnny Wilkinson focusing stance...}
{takes a run-up....}

:lol: Welcome back my friend :wink:

It was my own stupidity :roll: that destroyed the last one so you have no argument I'm afraid. :P
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Post by admiral51 »

MikeT wrote:{adopts a Johnny Wilkinson focusing stance...}
{takes a run-up....}
sorry to intrude Mike ...................................................................................but JW surely he would miss :lol: :lol: Anders is safe :D :D

colin
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