What's that noise?

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

MikeT
Posts: 4809
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
2008 C5 X7 1.6HDI VTR+ Saloon
x 231

Post by MikeT »

:twisted: Damn Citroen. They can't order me one bolt, must be a minimum of two! £5 for the pair. The crankshaft cambelt pulley is a reasonable £12 but the rubberised auxilary pulley costs over £100.

They tell me there's going to be a price increase soon, probably in line with inflation.
lolingram
RIP 2010
Posts: 550
Joined: 27 Dec 2006, 07:59
Location: France
My Cars:
x 1
Contact:

Post by lolingram »

£2.50 ain't that dear... flog the spare one to someone here - or eBay!

The torsional (Lanchester) vibe damper is unfortunately the price of the item.... DON'T use a s/h one - they wear out eventually.
Damn Citroen. They can't order me one bolt, must be a minimum of two! £5 for the pair. The crankshaft cambelt pulley is a reasonable £12 but the rubberised auxilary pulley costs over £100.
R.I.P. January 2010.
XM 2.1 auto VSX 1996 - Bosch Inj, Xantia HDi 90 estate 1999, Xantia 1.9TD 1997
Previously...
GS 1970, Dyane 1974, Xantia 94 VSX TD, XM 94, 2.1 auto - Lucas Inj, XM 92 2.1 estate - Lucas Inj
lolingram
RIP 2010
Posts: 550
Joined: 27 Dec 2006, 07:59
Location: France
My Cars:
x 1
Contact:

Post by lolingram »

Harmonic dampers are called by a wide range of varied names. In truth they are all torsional vibration dampers. Terms like crank pulleys, balancers, power pulley etc are to varying degrees erroneous. The term harmonic balancer comes from some manufacturers using the hub as a convenient location for external mass balance weights. The reason for this is that it made fine tuning of engine vibration simply done by adding or removing weight from the mass balance.

Though it is common belief that large steel parts such as crankshafts are rigid and inflexible this is not true, when a force acts on a crankshaft it bends, flexes and twists just as a rubber band would. While this elastic deformation is often very small it can have a significant impact on how an engine functions. For more see:

http://damperdudenz.tripod.com/id3.html
The torsional (Lanchester) vibe damper is unfortunately the price of the item.... DON'T use a s/h one - they wear out eventually.
R.I.P. January 2010.
XM 2.1 auto VSX 1996 - Bosch Inj, Xantia HDi 90 estate 1999, Xantia 1.9TD 1997
Previously...
GS 1970, Dyane 1974, Xantia 94 VSX TD, XM 94, 2.1 auto - Lucas Inj, XM 92 2.1 estate - Lucas Inj
MikeT
Posts: 4809
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
2008 C5 X7 1.6HDI VTR+ Saloon
x 231

Post by MikeT »

Thanks for that link Lol, very interesting reading and easily absorbed (if you'll exuse the pun :lol: ). I'm not sure how badly worn Jim judged my old damper to be but it was indeed replaced by a s/h one. I appreciate it will wear sooner than a new one and that complete failure can be a very expensive risk to take - frisbee indeed :roll:
lolingram
RIP 2010
Posts: 550
Joined: 27 Dec 2006, 07:59
Location: France
My Cars:
x 1
Contact:

Post by lolingram »

Back in the early '60s. I shoehorned a 105bhp 1275 Cooper S engine into an MG1100 version of the Morris 1100. It was fitted with a Downton modified cyl head, 2A948 cam and high lift rockers + twin 1.75" SUs, and I drove it down to Downton and met Daniel Richmond.

He drove the car and pronounced it fit for service, but strongly recommended the fitting of a harmonic damper in place of the std. pulley, which I did. With a few other mods, the vehicle proved worthy enough to win a few airfield sprints (mainly in the wet it should be said).

Daniel was a great engineer of the old school, who talked of Izod numbers and 'nodding' crankshaft tails, and why the best material at the time to make a long stroke crank was EN40B nitriding steel... which is true to this day. Good days those.

Sorry if I am boring...
Thanks for that link Lol, very interesting reading and easily absorbed (if you'll exuse the pun Laughing ). I'm not sure how badly worn Jim judged my old damper to be but it was indeed replaced by a s/h one. I appreciate it will wear sooner than a new one and that complete failure can be a very expensive risk to take - frisbee indeed
R.I.P. January 2010.
XM 2.1 auto VSX 1996 - Bosch Inj, Xantia HDi 90 estate 1999, Xantia 1.9TD 1997
Previously...
GS 1970, Dyane 1974, Xantia 94 VSX TD, XM 94, 2.1 auto - Lucas Inj, XM 92 2.1 estate - Lucas Inj
lolingram
RIP 2010
Posts: 550
Joined: 27 Dec 2006, 07:59
Location: France
My Cars:
x 1
Contact:

Post by lolingram »

Revving the balls off the motor will make the balancer work harder.....
I appreciate it will wear sooner than a new one and that complete failure can be a very expensive risk to take - frisbee indeed
R.I.P. January 2010.
XM 2.1 auto VSX 1996 - Bosch Inj, Xantia HDi 90 estate 1999, Xantia 1.9TD 1997
Previously...
GS 1970, Dyane 1974, Xantia 94 VSX TD, XM 94, 2.1 auto - Lucas Inj, XM 92 2.1 estate - Lucas Inj
lolingram
RIP 2010
Posts: 550
Joined: 27 Dec 2006, 07:59
Location: France
My Cars:
x 1
Contact:

Post by lolingram »

and I drove it down to Downton and met Daniel Richmond
see:

http://mk1-performance-conversions.co.uk/downton.htm
R.I.P. January 2010.
XM 2.1 auto VSX 1996 - Bosch Inj, Xantia HDi 90 estate 1999, Xantia 1.9TD 1997
Previously...
GS 1970, Dyane 1974, Xantia 94 VSX TD, XM 94, 2.1 auto - Lucas Inj, XM 92 2.1 estate - Lucas Inj
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49526
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6160
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

Ahh, EN40B, lovely stuff :D :D I still read David Vizard's A-Series tuning book with interest and he shows a photo sequence of a billet crank being made out of EN40B. I recall Mr. Vizard saying how critical a crank damper was on a well tuned long-stroke A-Series, especially if doing a super-stroker approaching 1600cc!

Mikes "new" pulley is/was OK and looked (at first glance) still OK on Friday. The main problem with Mike's old one was the keyway had considerably widened.

One way to keep an eye on it is to paint a line across it with say, Tippex or a paint pen and then keep an eye on it for relative movement between the inner and outer, such movement signifying the bond between the steel and rubber has broken down.
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
MikeT
Posts: 4809
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
2008 C5 X7 1.6HDI VTR+ Saloon
x 231

Post by MikeT »

Got the new bolt (Citroen list it as a "screw") today and fitted it though I noticed that it took more than the quoted 40nM torque to screw it in fully so I'll be checking it for tightness after each drive until I'm confident it's not loose. However, that may not be necessary as I don't think I'l be keeping the car much longer :(
MikeT
Posts: 4809
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
2008 C5 X7 1.6HDI VTR+ Saloon
x 231

Post by MikeT »

Well I got a bad news update on this now, over a month later. The belt has been shredded along one ridge. The length of stripped belt has lodged itself in all sorts of weird and wonderful places around the compressor pulley. The engine still runs, I took a detour to the shop to buy a new belt (£15!!!) and then it got me home ok, thankfully.
Post Reply