Xantia suspension and steering problem

flygirl767 · Post by **flygirl767** » 04 Feb 2008, 03:38

Hi Guys. Car is Xantia 1.9TD, L Reg, which I love as only a girl can love a car. It even has a name - so there. Anyway, In the mornings it's taking a very long time to lift; sometimes even needing a good rev of the engine to complete the operation. In addition, the steering has developed stiff spots on both locks which largely disappear after a few minutes of driving (well, about 8 mins actually). It seems OK for the rest of the day. It only seems to be really bad when it's been left for about 12 hours. A friend has said it could be the hydraulic pump which seems to be turned by that weird snake like fan belt thingy (now, THAT is a weird shape). The spheres have been changed in the last 18 months and the accumulator sphere changed again (just in case it was causing the problem) about a month ago. Until I have a real breathing living baby this is it, so any ideas gratefully received. Thanks. Love, Michelle

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 04 Feb 2008, 08:16

in what way is your ribbed (serpatin) belt weird, if the belt is slipping or just not fitted corectly this will not drive the pump properly, which could cause the fault you are getting,

but if this is put wright or is correct try fitting HYDRAFLUSH which requires the LHM beeing removed, the tank fillters cleaning then fill the system with HYDRAFLUSH,
run this for around 1,000 miles then remove and reffit LHM,

if this dose not fix the prob it could then be the pump is lazy, what mileage has the car done
regards malcolm

Clogzz · Post by **Clogzz** » 04 Feb 2008, 11:52

that weird snake like fan belt thingy

Ooh ! The lovely technical term.

If the belt is slipping, it will make a squealing noise when accelerating, and at high speed.

flygirl767 · Post by **flygirl767** » 04 Feb 2008, 14:30

Thanks for the advice guys. Last year I had problems with the pressure regulator (leaking)
which was eventually changed but only after about 6 months and circa £500 worth of LHM fluid so I think I can safely say the fluid is OK (CAN I?????). Don't know whether to have a go with the pump. Anybody else had this problem? Love, Michelle

Post by **CitroJim** » 04 Feb 2008, 19:59

Hi Michelle and welcome to the forum

It's good to see a girl on here who loves her Xantia

Right, you have a sinking Xantia like my 1.9TD and the hydraulics on these are a bit different to the later antisinks. Firstly, they sink like a proper Citroen should

Now, it is normal for the steering to be stiff whilst the system gets up to pressure due to the action of the Security valve and Flow Distribution Valve (FDV) limiting the supply to the steeering until there is enough pressure to satisfy the brakes first and then the suspension. Your problem is fairly and squarely pressure taking a loooong time to build. But why?

How fast does your STOP lamp go out. A sinker should extinguish it quickly as the pump has a lot of capacity. No more than 10 seconds from start-up and it should be out. How oftem is your pressure regulator ticking, indicating it is switching in and out, regulating the pressure around the correct figure? It should be in excess of 20s between ticks for a sinker. If it is rapid or hissing rather than ticking then your pressure regulator is suspect again. Hissing and no discerable tick may indicate the relief valve ball in the pressure regulator needs reseating. Noting will work correctly until you have a nice regular, slow tick from the regulator.

When the LHM was last changed, did the filers in the LHM tank get cleaned properly? they are very fine and can get so choked they look like they are wearing fur coats

This limits how much LHM can flow. Despite the change, a Hydraflush is still highly recommended.

Do you have any LHM leaks anywhere? When were the spheres (accumulator and suspension) last changed?

You may have a very heavy internal leak causing the pressure to build very slowly. The Brake Dosuer is a favourite for this. You can isolate a heavy internal leak by checking for heavy flows of LHM in their leakage return pipes.

Your car has a nasty thing called a Flow Distribution Valve (FDV) whose role is to fairly distribute the flow of LHM between the steering and brakes/suspension. This valve is not above suspicion.

Another cause can be the pump drawing air on its suction side due to air leaks on its feed pipe from the LHM tank. You'll not have LHM leaking because its under suction but air can get in and play havoic with the hydraulics. Look for lots and lots of foam in the LHM tank when the engine is running.

To my mind, if it's not leaking, the pump is the last suspect here.

Hope that help Michelle

XantiaMan · Post by **XantiaMan** » 04 Feb 2008, 20:59

Interesting thread as i've noticed my steering is a bit heavier the past few mornings, stop light still goes out as normal and its fine after a few minutes so something i've live with, it is due a LHM change/filters etc. I did citrobics tonight just to make sure and will see what its like in the morning.

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 05 Feb 2008, 06:15

Welcome to the forum Michelle!

citrojim wrote:Another cause can be the pump drawing air on its suction side due to air leaks on its feed pipe from the LHM tank. You'll not have LHM leaking because its under suction but air can get in and play havoic with the hydraulics. Look for lots and lots of foam in the LHM tank when the engine is running.

This would definately be my first suspicion - especially when I see comments like "It only seems to be really bad when it's been left for about 12 hours", and "sometimes even needing a good rev of the engine to complete the operation" - classic air leak symptoms.

As Jim suggests, you could shine a torch in through the filler hole in the LHM tank first thing in the morning while someone starts the engine - if you see loads of bubbles and frothing after a few seconds, it's a pretty fair bet there is an air leak.

Overnight the vertical column of oil coming up from inside the tank to the joint where the hose attaches will sink back into the tank drawing in air - then when you start the engine the pump will draw that big gulp of air in, and if the leak is bad enough it may not be able to self prime at idling speed, but may manage to prime at higher engine speeds - not lifting even after a long time at idling speed, but lifting relatively quickly if the engine is revved up is also a sign of an air leak.

Whenever significant amounts of air are sucked in by the pump the steering will also become heavy, almost instantly.

Check the hose that goes from the tank (front most large hose on all the Xantia's I've seen) to the pump and make sure both ends are secure and aren't cracked or loose. The original crimp type steel clips can lose their tension with age and can be replaced with a jubile clip.

Good luck.

Regards,
Simon

Post by **Peter.N.** » 05 Feb 2008, 11:43

The first thing that comes to my mind is a slipping belt, but this doesn't usually happen with ribbed belts, if its a 'v' belt its more than likely the belt slipping. Secondly, as has already been suggested, a pourous pump inlet hose, usually just where it goes onto the pump.

wrinklet1 · Post by **wrinklet1** » 06 Feb 2008, 12:18

Flygirl767

Hi, I had the exact same problem with my MkI Xantia,
The problem is that your hydraulic pump is tired. The steering uses low pressure and the pump directs high pressure to the brakes as priority.
You will have to get a new pump, I had to after trying all the other suggestions.
Pleides do a good pump for about £150 with your old one in return.
Very easy job to do, takes about 30mins tops. You will notice a big difference with the car rising quickly, quicker steering and the car staying up longer.

Paul