C5 HPI Est 2002 Emissions

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birstall
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Post by birstall »

Citrojim

Unfortunately you're about a two and a half hour drive from me, but thanks for the offer!

Ah yes I remember now - after the car went to the local machanic and came back, there was a distinct "blowy" noise on the exhaust, although I seem to be the only one who could hear it.

After coming and going it seems to be there all the time now, so could this be due to the EGR valve being stuck open?

Is it easy to get to, and how do I recognise it?

I need to fix this as it's getting to be a bit of a safety issue now - sudden loss of power when someones tailing you at 6" off your bumper - not good!

Cheers

Pete
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Post by DaiRees »

Hiya birstall,

I've got the ELM 327 usb code reader and scantool software running on my laptop, but there aren't any fault codes being thrown up by my recent problems, and the live data doesn't react quickly enough to enable me to see any changes when the engine misses the odd beat.

I had the EGR valve replaced last year. The top multiplug arrowed in your picture is it, I have a better picture somewhere....

Here you go
Image

It's dead easy to replace, 2 bolts (where that fluited casting meets the engine), but it costs about £140 :cry:
Last edited by DaiRees on 24 Apr 2008, 21:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by CitroJim »

Hi Pete,

Yes, if the EGR valve was stuck open it would cause this and could well make the exhaust sound "blowy". Power will be well down.

The EGR valve has to be a prime suspect here but quite where it is on an HPi I'm afraid I don't know as I've never seen one.

I will make an educated guess that it'll be on the exhaust manifold somewhere and there'll be a pipe leading from it to the inlet manifold somewhere. If you can take a whole engine picture and a picture of the exhaust manifold if possible, we should be able to identify it.

It is not the cylindrical item you have arrowed in the picture, that looks like the Idle Control Valve and I don't reckon it's the other device pictured.

If the EGR Valve links to the inlet manifold via a pipe, you could try blocking it off to stop all EGR action. If it them performs well, albeit with howls of protest from the ECU (although the ECU should be "blind" to a blocked pipe) then you have found the culprit.
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Post by birstall »

DaiRees/Citrojim

Thanks for your replies.

[Multiple editing in progress]

Will have to investigate further on Saturday.

Will let you know how I get on then.

Cheers

Pete
Last edited by birstall on 24 Apr 2008, 21:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by CitroJim »

You and I must have been typing at the same time Dai!

Excellent picture :D

At that price, a clean in carb cleaner has to be worth a shot...
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Post by DaiRees »

citrojim wrote:You and I must have been typing at the same time Dai!

Excellent picture :D

At that price, a clean in carb cleaner has to be worth a shot...
:lol: Took me a few minutes to find the right photo and upload it to photobucket.... :lol:

I was getting the same fault codes as birstall if I remember correctly, but I don't recall any noticable loss in performance or rough running with it. The slight hesitation / misfire I'm getting now was there back then too, I was hoping my big bill from the main stealer would have cured that but it didn't, obviously a different issue. Being a Pug though, what I was getting was a beep and a message on the Multi Function Display that read "Engine Antipolution System Defective" EVERY time I started the car :evil:

The total including the part, Pug diagnostics (we had a long discussion about why they don't believe 3rd party diagnostics, and they refused to touch it without putting it on their computer first :roll: ) and fitting was £272. When I saw how easy it was to change and that their diagnostic machine said ecactly the same as my machine I kicked myself for not having the balls to just buy the part and change it myself...
Last edited by DaiRees on 24 Apr 2008, 22:11, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by birstall »

So, if that really is the beast in the picture, I will try to disassemble and will get photo's before and after the carb cleaner treatment and post back if it shows anything.

Thanks again to both of you for your help.

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Post by DaiRees »

Pete, I have the old one in the garage somewhere. If you can hang on 'till tomorrow afternoon I'll take some better pics of it so that you can see it off the car. I'm just thinking about the codes you're getting and my memories of what the device looks like and wondering whether it's actually a valve, or some kind of sensor or actuator (maybe an actuator operating a valve internal to the engine :? ).

P0400 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Flow
P0403 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Control Circuit

Looking at the codes I'm thinking this is maybe the "control circuit" that isn't working resulting in the lack of "flow".
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Post by birstall »

DaiRees

I'm just wondering now the same thing. I'll have to take a closer look at the connector: it may be that the connector is still suspect. Or possibly the connections just inside the unit. Can't get onto this until Saturday afternoon at the earliest but will keep you posted when I can.

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Post by DickieG »

DaiRees wrote:Pug diagnostics (we had a long discussion about why they don't believe 3rd party diagnostics, and they refused to touch it without putting it on their computer first :roll: ) and fitting was £272. When I saw how easy it was to change and that their diagnostic machine said ecactly the same as my machine I kicked myself for not having the balls to just buy the part and change it myself...
There is actually value in what they say about 3rd party diagnostics, I have both a Citroën dealer diagnostic tool (Lexia) as well as a 3rd party one (Sykes ACR4). My HDi had five fault codes recorded according to the 3rd party tool (including two EGR's and ECU internal fault) that it could not clear. However the Lexia found six faults and cleared them all as it has the ability to reset the ECU back to a restart point of which you can have fifty goes at.

One thing about disconnecting the vacumn pipe running to the EGR valve, the ECU on my Xantia HDi doesn't pick it up, but when I did it on my 04 2.0 HDi Berlingo it triggered the ECU to go into limp home mode so presumably later ECU's are more 'intelligent.
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Post by DaiRees »

Here it is Pete, and I was obviously thinking of something else up there because this thing is clearly a valve :oops: ...

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Hope that helps.... 8)
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Post by MikeT »

Eww, that can certainly benefit from a good cleaning. If it's any help, the majority of engine management related problems are frequently wiring or connector faults.
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Post by CitroJim »

Fantastic pictures Dai :D

It looks like a poppet type EGR valve. A motor will drive the valve up and down to open and close it and a pot (variable resistor- like a volume control) will relay back to the ECU whereabouts in its travel it is.

If it sticks, the ECU will not be able to set it to where it desires it to be and thus detects and logs an EGR error.

As it's not hard to remove, a clean is worth a go and looking at the pictures, It woukd not be hard to block one of the orifices off for test purposes. You could almost push a rubber bung tightly in the angled outlet pipe to block it and the ECU would be none the wiser.
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Post by DaiRees »

citrojim wrote:Fantastic pictures Dai :D
Why thank you Sir :D . Taken with my 'phone actually, isn't technology amazing? :lol:
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Post by wheeler »

citrojim wrote:
It is not the cylindrical item you have arrowed in the picture, that looks like the Idle Control Valve.
Thats the motorised throttle unit.
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