Xantia strut top mount failure question
Moderator: RichardW
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Just an update on this.
I have 7 XM strut heads currently being remanufactured by KINGas.
They should be back by the middle of this month.
Some are having the hand changed to prove this aspect of the work.
These are all spoken for.
That batch was all I could quickly lay my hands on just before christmas.
I am collecting heads for another batch and was intending to include a pair of Xantia ones that are fairly heavily rusted.
When I first looked at the photos I was not that impressed.
A string of replies to my technical queries showed a great deal of thought and research has gone into this remanufacturing.
As well as baseplate weld repairs two steel rings are welded in.
One to the inside of baseplate and one to the outside of the strut centre.
These rings are sized so that they cannot pass through each other.
This prevents pop-up on the strut head should the elastomer fail.
The elastomer resiliance is chosen to match that of the original rubber over the normal temperature range. It is also moulded to give the same performance as the original, stiff laterally and soft longitudinally.
The firm has a history of remanufacturing car components and asked if I wanted any dual mass flywheels repaired.
The biggest problem with strut head repair is that the firm has no stock of heads to work with. Please do not throw any old strut heads away however bad they are. We need them to obtain a float.
Citronut
I can confirm that parts 1 and 2 are not welded together. They each get a seperate pop-up protection ring welded to them as explained above. They remain joined by the elastomer only. In the picture what you are seeing as added steel is actually light reflections in translucent elastomer.
I have sectioned an Xantia strut head and can confirm that parts 1 and 5 in the diagram are made as seperate parts. Part 5 has a circular channel around the inside and when assembled with part 1 a tool presses 10 big dimples into that channel. That fixes them together. The very early XM ones just use 4 dimples and led to some very early strut head failures.
John
I have 7 XM strut heads currently being remanufactured by KINGas.
They should be back by the middle of this month.
Some are having the hand changed to prove this aspect of the work.
These are all spoken for.
That batch was all I could quickly lay my hands on just before christmas.
I am collecting heads for another batch and was intending to include a pair of Xantia ones that are fairly heavily rusted.
When I first looked at the photos I was not that impressed.
A string of replies to my technical queries showed a great deal of thought and research has gone into this remanufacturing.
As well as baseplate weld repairs two steel rings are welded in.
One to the inside of baseplate and one to the outside of the strut centre.
These rings are sized so that they cannot pass through each other.
This prevents pop-up on the strut head should the elastomer fail.
The elastomer resiliance is chosen to match that of the original rubber over the normal temperature range. It is also moulded to give the same performance as the original, stiff laterally and soft longitudinally.
The firm has a history of remanufacturing car components and asked if I wanted any dual mass flywheels repaired.
The biggest problem with strut head repair is that the firm has no stock of heads to work with. Please do not throw any old strut heads away however bad they are. We need them to obtain a float.
Citronut
I can confirm that parts 1 and 2 are not welded together. They each get a seperate pop-up protection ring welded to them as explained above. They remain joined by the elastomer only. In the picture what you are seeing as added steel is actually light reflections in translucent elastomer.
I have sectioned an Xantia strut head and can confirm that parts 1 and 5 in the diagram are made as seperate parts. Part 5 has a circular channel around the inside and when assembled with part 1 a tool presses 10 big dimples into that channel. That fixes them together. The very early XM ones just use 4 dimples and led to some very early strut head failures.
John
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Im POSITIVE I have two sets of Xantia tops, from my car when Fitted S2 tops, and from a 1997 P plate when I stripped it down.
Im possibly selling a top to a fellow memeber, Ill get him to keep or send me his top for this reason.
Im sureI can possibly get another pair from another car, that Im happy to have sitting for some time without them..
Paul
Im possibly selling a top to a fellow memeber, Ill get him to keep or send me his top for this reason.
Im sureI can possibly get another pair from another car, that Im happy to have sitting for some time without them..
Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
John
i agree if they are being re/manufactured as you say that is all good, but the strut top to the left in the picy above certainly does look like it has 4 small plates welded across from section 1 to 2,
the other point i hanoticed with XANT strut tops is the ones i have seen fail have died through rust, as the rubber bonding on the under side of the base plate starts to peel away it lets in water, which then rot's the meytal components,
regards malcolm
i agree if they are being re/manufactured as you say that is all good, but the strut top to the left in the picy above certainly does look like it has 4 small plates welded across from section 1 to 2,
the other point i hanoticed with XANT strut tops is the ones i have seen fail have died through rust, as the rubber bonding on the under side of the base plate starts to peel away it lets in water, which then rot's the meytal components,
regards malcolm
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L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto
2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising - x 70
I may very well get shot or disliked for this, but in all honesty, if you DO NOT like the idea, or the rebuild, then simple, dont buy them or fit them!
Personally, Id think these guys DO KNOW what they are dooing, they wouldn't offer the service if they didn't Im sure! And they have been manufacturing spares for some time!
Wheres the UK offer/rebuild .... ?? ........ exactly..
Id certainly fit them if it saved my bonnet!!
RANT OVER..
Sorry.
Paul
Personally, Id think these guys DO KNOW what they are dooing, they wouldn't offer the service if they didn't Im sure! And they have been manufacturing spares for some time!
Wheres the UK offer/rebuild .... ?? ........ exactly..
Id certainly fit them if it saved my bonnet!!
RANT OVER..
Sorry.
Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
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Hi Malcolm
Unfortunately those 5 strut heads are now in cars so it is not possible to get the one we are discussing sent across here for us to examine it.
KINGas did not have any photos of strut heads when put in cars.
Once I have the remanufactured XM ones back you are welcome to have a look at them before they are used. Unfortunately I have specified elastomer with a black pigment so the inner detail will not be visible.
As I mentioned in the earlier post I have a pair of heavily rusted Xantia strut heads ready for including in the next batch to go over.
I have no personal use for these so I might try to convince KINGas to let me use them as examples of the product and its design. Get him to fully repair one strut head using translucent elastomer and just weld repair plus fit safety rings to the other one. These would clearly demonstrate the product features.
As Jim and a few others know I have been collecting and studying strut heads for a few years now. None of the other repair processes available or proposed have given me sufficient confidence that they were worth trying. Typically they are metal top clamps or piecmeal component rebuilds. In my opinion neither is satisfactory once you understand the actual functioning of the Citroen strut head design.
If new Xantia heads follow the same path as XM ones there will be long term problems in keeping the cars going. XM heads are now three times the price of Xantia ones with serious doubts about a factory restock when the present batch runs out.
Best regards
John
Unfortunately those 5 strut heads are now in cars so it is not possible to get the one we are discussing sent across here for us to examine it.
KINGas did not have any photos of strut heads when put in cars.
Once I have the remanufactured XM ones back you are welcome to have a look at them before they are used. Unfortunately I have specified elastomer with a black pigment so the inner detail will not be visible.
As I mentioned in the earlier post I have a pair of heavily rusted Xantia strut heads ready for including in the next batch to go over.
I have no personal use for these so I might try to convince KINGas to let me use them as examples of the product and its design. Get him to fully repair one strut head using translucent elastomer and just weld repair plus fit safety rings to the other one. These would clearly demonstrate the product features.
As Jim and a few others know I have been collecting and studying strut heads for a few years now. None of the other repair processes available or proposed have given me sufficient confidence that they were worth trying. Typically they are metal top clamps or piecmeal component rebuilds. In my opinion neither is satisfactory once you understand the actual functioning of the Citroen strut head design.
If new Xantia heads follow the same path as XM ones there will be long term problems in keeping the cars going. XM heads are now three times the price of Xantia ones with serious doubts about a factory restock when the present batch runs out.
Best regards
John
Xmexclusive
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L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto
2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising - x 70
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Hi Malcolm and Paul
I found the all the questions and comments helpful.
We all have different knowledge and experience to share.
It is the combination of all that information that brings the real value on here.
On the specific point I can see the 4 marks in the photo.
I can also see why they can be mistaken for encapsulated welded steel blocks. I actually quite like the translucent elastomer because you may well be able to see some of what has been done inside on remanufacture. It might also be a useful in service feature to help with condition inspection. In the end though I opted for black elastomer to make it look virtually identical to the original. As a result of experience I am rather wary of the odd autocratic MOT man. So I thought that using elastomer in fancy colours or translucent might just draw unneccessary attention.
John
I found the all the questions and comments helpful.
We all have different knowledge and experience to share.
It is the combination of all that information that brings the real value on here.
On the specific point I can see the 4 marks in the photo.
I can also see why they can be mistaken for encapsulated welded steel blocks. I actually quite like the translucent elastomer because you may well be able to see some of what has been done inside on remanufacture. It might also be a useful in service feature to help with condition inspection. In the end though I opted for black elastomer to make it look virtually identical to the original. As a result of experience I am rather wary of the odd autocratic MOT man. So I thought that using elastomer in fancy colours or translucent might just draw unneccessary attention.
John
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If this is me, yep no problem.citroenxm wrote:Im POSITIVE I have two sets of Xantia tops, from my car when Fitted S2 tops, and from a 1997 P plate when I stripped it down.
Im possibly selling a top to a fellow memeber, Ill get him to keep or send me his top for this reason.
Im sureI can possibly get another pair from another car, that Im happy to have sitting for some time without them..
Paul
Cheers Steve
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- Posts: 8061
- Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
- Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
- My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto
2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising - x 70