Xantia Steering from hell

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slim123
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Post by slim123 » 19 Feb 2007, 14:52

I take it that you have checked the LHM level? This sounds like an air bubble has surfaced overnight, the constant use has pushed it through.

Very doubtfull of a ram problem, these are very reliable untill they spring a leak, then they carry on working fine, just chucking LHM all over the road.

I would say give it a couple of days or so and see if it happens again.

As for the suspension being stiffer, this cannot get any more pressure from a new pump as the pump give its pressure to the regulator, the regulator will cut out at 175- whatever the pump is trying to give.

Regards
Slim.

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CitroenNuts
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Post by CitroenNuts » 20 Feb 2007, 01:45

Ok just did another 70mile trip with her again and the steering is still not right, on the plus side the suspension seems fine.

LHM = ok
Pump = ok (new)
Citrobics = ok
Track rod ends = ok (new)
All spheres = ok (less than 10mths old)

No noticeable air in the system but I did spot this evening that the flat stiff point almost seems worse turning to the left but it comes and goes one minute it can be turned by finger tip the next minute you need a firm grip not a two handed force just a lot heavier, Could it be the rack is there anything else worth trying?

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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK » 21 Feb 2007, 00:28

As Slim explained the ram cylinder will most likely tell by leaking floods of LHM. Though we have had a Xantia owner with a dry ram cylinder causing a slight bind and a weird squeeking noise.

I'd try lube the exposed ram when it is fully out - which is steering wheel at right endstop on a RHS.
Many good brains have explained over and over again that this would be waste of time - especially on suspension cylinders.
But the past has shown it works - every time !
I dont say this would solve your problem. But its cheap, easy and fast to try, and wont harm the ram cylinder.

If you prefer the money chunking method - then you are still left with a doubtfull pinion valve function :lol:

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CitroenNuts
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Post by CitroenNuts » 21 Feb 2007, 02:13

I’ll try the ram in the light in the morning but I had a look a few minuets back and it looks good still has the plastic cover thing on it and when pushed back was nice and shiny

I do notice a lot of noise front the ram / rack down on that corner but can’t say if its worse than normal as I never paid attention in the past

My worry is it doesn’t seem safe and the wife wont drive like that so If I cant narrow it down I might have to bight the bullet and take it to Cit but I’m pretty sure we know more about these thing on here after all last time I went to the dealer and asked for LHM they said what’s that for the power steering :lol:


If all else fails I might try a new rack just don’t like putting good money after bad

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CitroenNuts
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Post by CitroenNuts » 21 Feb 2007, 15:19

Ok just checked the ram and all seems well, sprayed lubricant on it just incase but no change so I’ve decided to bite the bullet and put it into citroen to see what they say :oops:

slim123
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Post by slim123 » 21 Feb 2007, 20:15

The trouble is with most dealers (not just Citroen) is that if they cannot plug it into a lap top and come up with a code, then they just aint got a clue.

There are only 3 x hydraulic parts to the steering.

1/ The pump
This you have replaced, could be faulty but I doubt it as the same problem is showing up as was there with the old one.

2/ The ram.
Could in theory as Anders says be at fault, but if it is, it would be the first time that I have known one do this.

3/ The pinion valve
This part sits like a turret on the rack and diverts the pressure to either side of the ram, depending on direction. In my humble experience, these usualy either leak or go heavy in one direction only.

The only other parts are the rack, this is a purley mechanical rack with hydraulic bits strapped to it, there is however a bush inside the end furthest from the pinion (the left hand side on rhd cars) This bush can get tight and will normally cause a cracking sound occasionaly when worn.

Finally as someone else suggested, the universal joint coupling just above the pinion, these are common failures on lots of cars, but I guess that you have checked this out. I find that when these fail, the car does not want to steer back to centre.

Hope this helps in some way.

Regards
Slim.

citroDane
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Re: Xantia Steering from hell

Post by citroDane » 17 Apr 2013, 20:29

Hi CitroNuts, et al,

I too have a 1999 2.0 HDI Xantia (90HP) and mine has developed the exact same problem over the past few weeks i.e. heavy spots in the steering (big ones and the car does want to steer back to the center).

There was no conclusion on this thread, at least nothing was posted) and the last planned action I saw was the car being headed for a diag job at Citroen's.

Did this happen? In any event, I'd be utterly appreciative if any of you gents could let me in on how this problem was fix in the end.

Best-
Gabriel

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Re: Xantia Steering from hell

Post by RichardW » 17 Apr 2013, 21:36

Gabriel

Try lubricating the Universal Joint at the bottom of the steering column - this causes 99% of problems on Xantia steering - mine was just like yours, some release agent and then oil on the UJ and it came back to normal. You can do it through the wheel arch on lock if you are a good shot with a spray can!

citroDane
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Re: Xantia Steering from hell

Post by citroDane » 18 Apr 2013, 03:58

RichardW wrote:Gabriel

Try lubricating the Universal Joint at the bottom of the steering column - this causes 99% of problems on Xantia steering - mine was just like yours, some release agent and then oil on the UJ and it came back to normal. You can do it through the wheel arch on lock if you are a good shot with a spray can!
Thanks a lot Richard. Interesting indeed and it's gonna be a very inexpensive fix too. I had actually prepared myself for a pump swap.
I am a pretty good shot with spray cans actually :). I am not too sure where the join is though, but I guess I will find it. Will I need to get the wheel arch mud shield off to get to the UJ?

Cheers,
Gabriel

red_dwarfers
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Re: Xantia Steering from hell

Post by red_dwarfers » 18 Apr 2013, 07:42

When I had heavy spots on my Xantias steering it was down to air ingress in the hydraulic pump feed pipe. Just on the corner as it goes into the pump. There wasn't any fluid leaking out so it wasn't obvious.

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Re: Xantia Steering from hell

Post by RichardW » 18 Apr 2013, 07:47

Gabriel, it's immediately above the pinion valve on the steering rack. If you put the car on full right lock (in your case for a LH drive car!) and look behind the LH front wheel you should be able to see it without removing any shields. You may need to rotate the steering a bit to get at both sides of the joint.

Red Dwarfers point is a good one - but on mine where I got the feeling the steering was 'locking' then would release with a bit more force, it was defintely the UJ.

citroDane
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Re: Xantia Steering from hell

Post by citroDane » 18 Apr 2013, 07:55

red_dwarfers wrote:When I had heavy spots on my Xantias steering it was down to air ingress in the hydraulic pump feed pipe. Just on the corner as it goes into the pump. There wasn't any fluid leaking out so it wasn't obvious.
Tnx. Good to have that on the check list as well. Wondering though, what was the cause of that? Had the pipe fitting / bolt loosened where it sits on the pump housing or was there ? Was it due to vibrations or erosion? How did you fix it?

Cheers,
Gabriel

citroDane
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Re: Xantia Steering from hell

Post by citroDane » 18 Apr 2013, 08:00

RichardW wrote:Gabriel, it's immediately above the pinion valve on the steering rack. If you put the car on full right lock (in your case for a LH drive car!) and look behind the LH front wheel you should be able to see it without removing any shields. You may need to rotate the steering a bit to get at both sides of the joint.

Red Dwarfers point is a good one - but on mine where I got the feeling the steering was 'locking' then would release with a bit more force, it was defintely the UJ.
Thanks a bunch Richard. Alas, I'll have to leave town for business for a couple of days. But I'll be giving this a try Saturday morning -first thing.
I'll post back the results. I really appreciate this.

Cheers,
Gabriel

citronut
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Re: Xantia Steering from hell

Post by citronut » 18 Apr 2013, 08:04

after all the easy fix's are checked has anyone suggested/thought the rubber/metal/rubber main steering return pipe, might do similar to an old brake flexi pipe were is collapse's internally ( if this is possible )?????

citroDane
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Re: Xantia Steering from hell

Post by citroDane » 21 Apr 2013, 21:15

Hi gents,

Today I tried to spray some oil (anti seize) at the UJ. I didn't have the wheel off so the space was confined and I had poor visibility (no flash light or torch light handy). So I couldn't actually spot the joint and tried "shooting the place up" with the spray can hoping I'd eventually get the UJ in the process even though I wasn't seeing it. The procedure has not brought about any change, unfortunately. But then of course I can't be sure I "nailed" it! So tomorrow I'm gonna take the wheel off, get a light and try to actually spot it and then try to hit it.

Btw, after the attempt to lubricate the UJ, when turning the steering wheel to test things, I heard a sound like that of an unoiled door hinge (though with a bit lower pitch), from -I think- the steering rack. Any take on what this signifies? Also I can hear the pump hissing more intensely than it did when the steering was operating normally.

Cheers,
Gabriel