High riding, hard rear suspension - Xantia TD Estate

mezuk04 · Post by **mezuk04** » 18 Aug 2006, 10:56

Me and me' mate did it with a couple of car ramps

2512Steve · Post by **2512Steve** » 26 Aug 2006, 11:41

Hi again everyone.

Just to update you on what I've tried so far.

1. I replaced the adjuster on the rear anti-rollbar.
2. Sprayed the height corrector mech with WD40 and freed all the linkages.
3. Carried out lots of Citroebics.
4. Printed out the height measuring specs off the forum and checked heights front and back, these were about 45-50mm high at the front and 60-70mm high at the back.
5. Tried adjusting rear clamp (I'll worry about the front when I get this back end sorted out) without any success. The ride height never altered.
Suspension still hard, so:
6. Ordered two new rear spheres (2 year warranty) for £35 + £6.50p&p off eBay from 'citroenservices' (A really helpful guy called Paul, who managed to dispatch them so that they arrived on the only day someone was at home). The actual business is called:

Auto Equip Pieces
Unit 2, 1 Alleysbank Road
Farmloan Ind Estate
Rutherglen
Glasgow
G73 4QP
0141 647 0800

So far, so good.

7. Borrowed a pair of ramps, downloaded the 'Easy sphere removal' pages (by Alan Smith in Australia) and set about changing the spheres.

This is where the problems really start.

After reversing the car onto the ramps, height set at max, I slipped the chain-type removal tool onto the first sphere, tightened it up and started pulling. Nothing much happened, so I put my foot against the opposite wheel and really pulled. The sphere started to move, but it was taking the suspension housing with it. I tried the other one, same result.

Then I tried giving them a few hefty whacks with a hammer to try and break them free; tried chain tool again, same result, so I sprayed the joints with WD40, drove it off the ramps and left it overnight to soak in.

Next day, back on the ramps, suspension at max (with the engine running this time to try and get extra pressure on the suspension), chain tool on, pull hard, the whole lot moves again.

Lower suspension, rotate spheres back to normal position, drive wooden wedges between housing and metal ring surrounding it, height back up to max and try again. Everything starts to move again, crushing the wooden wedges. Having already bought the new spheres, I decided that there was nothing to lose (Re: the old spheres) so I tried shocking them free with a chisel applied to the seam on the spheres. Still no movement on the spheres, even when the chain tool was tried again.

Who knows how long these spheres have been on, some of the paperwork that came with the car listed other work previously done (timing belt, pads, service, etc), but nothing about changing spheres.

I've tried everything on the 'changing spheres pages' and all the tricks I know, so what's left? Anybody have a suggestion to getting these stubborn spheres off? Help!!

Regards,
Steve

slim123 · Post by **slim123** » 26 Aug 2006, 12:33

What you need is a proper tool, ie the Band wrench from Pleiades (01487 831239)

Put the car back up onto the ramps then leave the engine running and the car in high.
Put the band wrench on the sphere and try to turn it, if the same thing happens, give the band wrench handle a realy good hard thump towards the sphere using a heavy lump hammer, this will shock the joint and crack the corrosion.

Tis only corrosion that holds the sphere as they were only fitted hand tight at the factory.

You could try the engine running proccess using the tool that you have, but if all fails, give Pleiades a call.

Regards
Slim

2512Steve · Post by **2512Steve** » 27 Aug 2006, 10:08

slim123 wrote:What you need is a proper tool, ie the Band wrench from Pleiades (01487 831239)

Tis only corrosion that holds the sphere as they were only fitted hand tight at the factory.

Hi Slim,

Thanks for the suggestion, but it's not the tool that I'm using, that works fine (enough grip for me to swing from it), it is the corrosion that is stopping it from coming undone. Like I said, I've tried hitting it with a heavy hammer, with no success; I didn't want to hit too hard for risk of breaking the aluminium housing (I think that is where the main problem is, electrolitic action between the steel sphere and the aluminium housing causing the corrosion-strong stuff, this corrosion).

I'll keep trying to shock it free with the hammer, if no one else comes up with any suggestions, but if all fails I'll give Pleiades a call/e-mail.

I've got to stop doing this, it's giving me a headache

Regards,
Steve

steelcityuk · Post by **steelcityuk** » 27 Aug 2006, 10:55

I recently saw some aerosol in the local shop that claims to free stuck bolts/nuts/joint by freezing them to a very low temperature. The claim is that by causing the parts to cool and contract the corrosion is 'broken' allowing lubricant into the joins/threads. Got to be worth a try.

Good luck.

Steve.

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 27 Aug 2006, 20:27

2512Steve wrote:Thanks for the suggestion, but it's not the tool that I'm using, that works fine (enough grip for me to swing from it), it is the corrosion that is stopping it from coming undone. Like I said, I've tried hitting it with a heavy hammer, with no success; I didn't want to hit too hard for risk of breaking the aluminium housing (I think that is where the main problem is, electrolitic action between the steel sphere and the aluminium housing causing the corrosion-strong stuff, this corrosion).

Go and buy a spray can of "LPS1" from a local hardware store, its a rust penetrant and lubricant....give it a good squirt around the sphere/cylinder junction, (using the extension nozzle) wait a couple of minutes and try undoing it again....

I've seen it work miracles before freeing up rusted bolts etc, and I have also used it on stubbon spheres as well...

As well as that, what I find is sometimes necessary is to shock the sphere with torque applied - eg get one person to pull on the tool with a strong but steady force and a second person hits the body of the sphere with a 1lb block hammer.

The extra jolting of the hammer blows often does the trick, and the main body of the sphere is very robust. DONT hit the cylinder or the filler plug on the end of the sphere though.

Regards,
Simon

2512Steve · Post by **2512Steve** » 27 Aug 2006, 21:12

Thanks Simon, that sounds useful, especially the bit about getting someone else to hit the sphere while I'm pulling on the wrench.

If not, I'll get some of that spray.

Regards,
Steve

2512Steve · Post by **2512Steve** » 28 Aug 2006, 20:36

Hi Guys & Simon in particular,

That little trick worked (eventually), mepulling on the wrench and my son whacking the sphere with a heavy hammer. $\:D/$

. Still had to hammer and pull on the wrench for almost half a turn of the spheres before I could turn them with just the wrench though.

After depressurising the system and taking off the spheres, what came out of the spheres was not green, but a sort of 'golden-brown' colour (like old chip oil - maybe I should put it in the fuel tank

). So I fitted the new spheres, went with my son to get fresh LHM+ (it all seems to be LHM+ these days), drained the system, washed out the reservoir and filters, re-filled the system, tightened up the pressure release valve and carried out citroebics.

The ride has softened a bit, but the ride height is still high.

1. Should I have changed the Anti-sink sphere at the same time, and would this cure the hard ride?
2. Tried adjusting the clamp on the anti-rollbar, but although the mechanism moves on the height corrector when pushed and held (one way, then the other), the ride height stays the same.

OK guys, what next?

Regards,
Steve

pete@co.uk · Post by **pete@co.uk** » 28 Aug 2006, 22:04

hi steve

i know this sounds silly but is the plastic link attached ok i had this same problem a long time ago when i first started messing around with xantias i found the clamp had broke and the little plastic clip was hanging loose.

Also another little trick i learnt then was to disconnect the hight lever (its clipped on to the main linkage) and make sure that part of the linkage move,s properly it should go backward and forward mine was seized right up there, that could also couse the ride hight to stay high as well.

The best way to check all is free is to remove the hight corrector valve from the linkage there,s two bolts holding it to the linkage and pull it free, from the linkage, it may be better to remove it completly from the car.

Then when all is free just the linkage attached to the subframe spray the linkage liberaly then move everything about and make sure all the links are free if you do remove the valve dont make the same mistake i did and put the pipes back on the wrong way round or youll finish up with the front of the car going down and the rear going up and vice sa versa

.
(Mandrake might remember this he helped me out with mine last year). This might sound a lot of work but its the only way to be sure everthing is free becouse your problem sounds like the rear linkage is still partially seized.

hope all this helps

read my experiance here from last year

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... sc&start=0

you,ll find this very interesting and its how i found out about Xantia suspension

pete.................

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 29 Aug 2006, 00:36

2512Steve wrote:Hi Guys & Simon in particular,

That little trick worked (eventually), mepulling on the wrench and my son whacking the sphere with a heavy hammer. $\:D/$ . Still had to hammer and pull on the wrench for almost half a turn of the spheres before I could turn them with just the wrench though.

Good to hear it worked! Some spheres are a right b****r to get off....but I find if the thread on the sphere is greased and the flat faces where the cylinder and sphere meet, then next time its easy. (Also remember to only tighten them hand tight)

After depressurising the system and taking off the spheres, what came out of the spheres was not green, but a sort of 'golden-brown' colour (like old chip oil - maybe I should put it in the fuel tank ). So I fitted the new spheres, went with my son to get fresh LHM+ (it all seems to be LHM+ these days), drained the system, washed out the reservoir and filters, re-filled the system, tightened up the pressure release valve and carried out citroebics.

The ride has softened a bit, but the ride height is still high.

1. Should I have changed the Anti-sink sphere at the same time, and would this cure the hard ride?

The anti-sink sphere will have little to no effect on the ride.

2. Tried adjusting the clamp on the anti-rollbar, but although the mechanism moves on the height corrector when pushed and held (one way, then the other), the ride height stays the same.

How long are you waiting ? There is a 5-10 second delay built into the height corrector.

Does the height corrector work at all ? For example if you put a heavy load in the back does it correct the height back up to the same (incorrect) height, and then correct it back down to that same height if you remove the load ? Does the manual height lever have any effect ?

To make the adjustment there are two basic approaches - in both cases you start by slackening the the clamp on the rollbar so it is free to turn.

Then you either push and hold (for up to 10 seconds) the linkage one way or the other to get the car to the height you want then tighten the clamp, OR physically change the height of the car to the desired height (for example adding or removing some weight in the boot) then tightening the clamp.

I sometimes find the latter a bit easier, as its hard to make a small change in height by manually operating the height corrector linkage...

Regards,
Simon