Engine Swap. TD to HDi

Gammy leg · Post by **Gammy leg** » 05 Jul 2006, 16:27

Chaps,

Q1. Is it possible to install a 2.0Hdi lump into a Synergie 1.9TD?

Q2. Has anyone ever attempted this?

Q3. Is it feasible to do this or should I just sell the TD and buy a Hdi.

Thanks

sub42 · Post by **sub42** » 05 Jul 2006, 17:38

Been there. Looked long and hard after my neigbours pug HDI was written off. I think in all honesty, that you would only really be able to do this if you swapped over the entire loom front half from a HDI, and even then, there might be problems getting it all to patch up.

I actually bought the 1.9TD on purpose, knowing that I had one of the most reliable and burst-proof engines on the market. I got a little scared about the HDI in its earliest guise, and its reliability issues, and plumbed for the TD instead.

The job would be loadsa grief, and there isnt that much in it between the TD's & HDI's anymore. Find a HDI instead IMHO.

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 05 Jul 2006, 20:13

Sounds like a riscy endless project to me -

Q1 : If both engine types comes from the same type engine bay - why not ?

Q2 : Never heard of anyone doing it. But transplanting engines from one engine bay to another is common practice.

Q3 : If you have a family life - its not feasable - unless as a longterm hobby project in a club. Its certainly MUCH easier finding a HDI - and I'm quite sure you'll end up with approx the same costs - all things considered (except labour !).

f00lzz · Post by **f00lzz** » 05 Jul 2006, 21:34

I'd rather have the 2.1TD

Post by **Peter.N.** » 05 Jul 2006, 21:55

I agree with F00lzz, the 2.1 td is a very good engine, more or less bomb proof, smooth and quiet for an IDI. No injector/pump problems and will last 300k plus if looked after. I've had four of them

Gammy leg · Post by **Gammy leg** » 05 Jul 2006, 23:01

Thanks for the replies. I thought that there may be issues re: electrics etc and I certainly don't have a lot of time to devote to this project. At most, if essential maintenance is required, I could spare a weekend.
I once swapped a Mk3 1.6 OHV Cortina engine with a 1.6 OHC, seemed simple in theory but in reality was a complete nightmare mainly due to manifold and exhaust incompatibility. Didn't even get paid for it. Families eh?
Correct me if i'm wrong but I didnt know that the Synergie was available with a 2.1TD option.

Gammy

Post by **Peter.N.** » 05 Jul 2006, 23:34

I dont think it is but the 2.1 is still an XUD engine so shouldn't be to difficult to swap with another.

sub42 · Post by **sub42** » 06 Jul 2006, 18:19

The Synergie was never made avaliable in the UK with the 2.1TD engine. We had to do with the 1.9TD or the 2.0L Petrol. Europe had all the goodies including a 2.0L petrol turbo version! Next question then is just how different is the 2.1 to the 1.9? Is is physically any different? Or is it simply a bored/stroked 1.9?

Post by **Peter.N.** » 06 Jul 2006, 21:26

The main difference is the cylinder head, the 2.1 has hydraulic tappets also 12 valves making it slightly taller. The cooling system has also been considerably improved with the thermostat in the radiator return circuit fitted in the bottom left hand corner of the block. This leaves the waterways in the head completely free from obstruction allowing no air to be trapped thus considerably reducing the chances of the head being cracked should it boil.

I think that the mountings are the same or similar but the exhaust has a larger bore and there are a few extras like EGR. The later engines, post 96 have electronic management but all the sensors are connected to a loom on the engine which plugs straight into the ECU, and on the XM at least the throttle cable remains the same being fitted into an electronic box on the engine.

BonceChops · Post by **BonceChops** » 07 Jul 2006, 00:05

Peter.N. wrote:I agree with F00lzz, the 2.1 td is a very good engine.....No injector/pump problems

My local Lucas agent thinks the EPIC pump is one of the worst pumps ever made. Very unreliable and very expensive to replace.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 07 Jul 2006, 00:14

Physically getting a different engine in is the easy bit - its getting the thing to work properly and then finding that there was something wrong with the 'new' engine in the first place.

Your TD will either have a mechanical pump or a relatively early partly electronic pump - whereas the HDi has a much more complicated electronic system and in the case of the 110 its really the electronics that are responsible for its good performance.

My guess is that the electronics will be the bit that causes most grief. presumably Synergy's depreciate like all other Citroens so I'd have thought that you'd get a HDi for the cost of ALL of the bits you will need for the change. By ALL the bits I don't just mean the engine - but all the new clutch, belts, bolts, running around and other incidental expenses that we all forget about when costing jobs.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 07 Jul 2006, 09:49

Bonce Chops - All my 2.1 tds have had mechanical pumps and I have never had one go wrong and the injectors also last almost indefinitly. If you look at the reliability record of the modern common rail systems, injectors being replaced at as little as 20 -30k and at several times the cost of the old low pressure ones, and often as in the case of Ford and I assume Peugeot, due to failure of the high pressure / fuel tank pump.

I know they don't all go wrong but the modern diesels dont have anything like the duability of the old ones, just have a look on the various forums. Add to that the electronic complications meaning that there are certain jobs that you just cant do yourself, I am going to hang on to my XM as long as possible!