bosch injectors are ok to disconnect with engine running it just closes the solenoid,siemens are piezo type which need to be powered open and powered shut.dont try on siemens!!,have you tried a leak test on your injectors? disconnect all electrical connectors from all 4 injectors,remove the leak off on top of all 4 injectors(remove the little spring clip),the last injector which has leak off going to return clamp this pipe off.then get a piece of rag and dry off diesel sat in top of each injector,then crank engine over for about 10/15 seconds you should have no diesel leaking out of top of injector,if you have that injector is duff!!
The different type of injector washers are the thickness,if cylinder head has been skimmed the you need a thicker washer to lift injector back up into head a bit.
Copper Washers HDi
Moderator: RichardW
I think my new injector may be ready to collect tommorow, the bosch shop called so assume has arrived. After fitting I will have 3 new ones and 1 old one in my engine. It the noises don't stop will do the leak test on them.
Yeah thought that about the repair washer, might be thicker for use after a head job. Wonder if they would help me...will leave that option til have done bit more trouble shooting. thx everyone.
Yeah thought that about the repair washer, might be thicker for use after a head job. Wonder if they would help me...will leave that option til have done bit more trouble shooting. thx everyone.
rossd, is the place on the net you found, www.uniteddiesel.co.uk by any chance? £130 a piece or bit cheaper if you buy 4. Am getting my injectors from a local bosch parts supplier for £173 inc VAT exchange. Is proper bosch stuff with security tape so should be the real thing. I assume they are reconditioned but bosch dont mess about with these things. They probably just keep the shell of the injector body but everything else, all the internals go in the bin. - Would hope so! I have had a price of£160 each of Dieselman on ebay...the cheapest from a diesel agent in Manchester £110 - sounded too cheap to be true, maybe just change nozzles and thats it. Seems most bosch places want to charge 190+VAT for exchange. All bosch exchange stuff goes on the part number starting with
0986 then in my case for injectors with part number 0445 110 044 the exchange part number is 0986 435 003. This number is supposed to give you the proper exchange price.
0986 then in my case for injectors with part number 0445 110 044 the exchange part number is 0986 435 003. This number is supposed to give you the proper exchange price.
UPdate....just changed no1 injector so have new ones in 1 2 and 4. And it STILL rattles! maybe it was the other old one at fault! will swap that one with the other old one, but will give it a proper run 1st, time for the ECU to adjust. I am wondering now if the head might have been off in the past and that the thicker washers were used as a result so now the nozzle is too deep inside the head...if i replace the last injector and it is still the same....will be pretty stuck....
BTW. after removing the old injectors there were alot of flakes of soot around the nozzle, quite big flakes - is this a sign of pinking or just normal deposits.
BTW. after removing the old injectors there were alot of flakes of soot around the nozzle, quite big flakes - is this a sign of pinking or just normal deposits.
black flakes are normal when you pull injectors out.you should get no diesel out of injector,when you crank over high pressure builds up in fuel rail and then into injectors.pressure sits on both sides of needle in injector so balanced pressure and spring keeping it shut.when ecu energises solenoid on injector it drops the pressure on top of injector then the lower pressure lifts it off its seat and injection occurs.the pressure drop on top of injector,excess deisel then goes down return.so in a closed state no diesel will leak out of top,if it does then it is also probably leaking into cylinder.ecu will correct injection per cylinder as it measures accelerations on flywheel sensor this happens very quickly,if you have a cylinder down or bent conrod it will alter its injection time to compensate.check the leak off on your remaining injector,if unpluged when engine running does knocking stop?if it does then its injector or hole in piston,have seen hdi injectors stick open then in no time at all blow a hole in piston,ever had petrol through it by mistake??
EP6T petrol turbo nice engine in the 207 GT and the new mini....
Hmmm...very interesting that. Taken it for a good 40 mile run tonight, switched off then restarted 1/2hr later..did seems a bit better at low revs - maybe my imagination. The idle is steady but does sound like there is quite a bit of clatter - hole in piston scenario is interesting, this low revs rattle didn't happen when I bought the car, it only happened after a putting a set of 4 in from United Diesel then it rattled like mad, really loud. I put the originals in the next day (used washers) and from then on has always rattled everywhere.
Would it be fair to say that if in a few months I bought another injector so had 4 new ones that if it knocks at low revs, there may be engine damage or maybe it needs the thicker washers.
Though, I must say that the 2-3k rattle is still there but has improved quite abit. So the noise there is probably tennable now.
So, I should now do a leak test on the old one left, disconnect all the solenoid plugs and the leak off line then crank and look.
I have never put petrol in it , but who knows in the past. Maybe lots of Hdi owners have put petrol in the past and a lot of damage has been done to the engine internals.
Think next plan is to replace the old one left with the old one taken out today.. I feel that is probably just 1 cylinder is tapping. Tried the stephoscope test but couldnt be sure about it.
What a saga eh.....hopefully get there or near enuff there in the end.
Would it be fair to say that if in a few months I bought another injector so had 4 new ones that if it knocks at low revs, there may be engine damage or maybe it needs the thicker washers.
Though, I must say that the 2-3k rattle is still there but has improved quite abit. So the noise there is probably tennable now.
So, I should now do a leak test on the old one left, disconnect all the solenoid plugs and the leak off line then crank and look.
I have never put petrol in it , but who knows in the past. Maybe lots of Hdi owners have put petrol in the past and a lot of damage has been done to the engine internals.
Think next plan is to replace the old one left with the old one taken out today.. I feel that is probably just 1 cylinder is tapping. Tried the stephoscope test but couldnt be sure about it.
What a saga eh.....hopefully get there or near enuff there in the end.
Yep, thats the place. I will email them to see what they do when they recon the injectors for peice of mind!!gwailo wrote:rossd, is the place on the net you found, www.uniteddiesel.co.uk by any chance? £130 a piece or bit cheaper if you buy 4.
rossd - just so you know I paid £458 inc VAT for a set of 4 from united diesel. My local diesel agent put them in and the car pinked like mad, loads loads worse than the originals. Put the originals back in and it went lot quieter again. Maybe their injectors oK, maybe was unluckly but I don't think u can risk buying anything less than genuine bosch. The boss that runs United Diesel is a friendly bloke and was happy to take them back tho I never found out if on their return if he had re-tested them, he told me they just went straight back into his sytem. I am not sure what they do to repair them but am sure it won't be on a par with what bosch do. Seems overall that u can never have a chance of knowing whis really going on unless you replace the lot and that means £700 odd quid...and that is a hell of a lot.
Your method of checking HDi injectors seems to differ from mine so maybe thats why you dont get any fuel trickling from the return.I would normally leave the injectors plugged in but disconect the cam sensor to prevent the engine starting,you nearly always get a trickle of fuel coming out the returns if you check them this way,if there is a faulty injector,the difference can usually be seen & it spits out a lot more fuel than the others.normally an injector failing in this way will cause the engine not to start as it cant build up enough fuel pressure.pugxpert wrote:you should get no diesel out of injector
Leak Testing - I undid all the solenoid plugs, removed the return branch, then primed the engine. I realise why I should have clamped off the return pipe cuz a load of diesel spurred out of it.
Then went on to crank the engine giving it a good 6 turns or so.
All that happened was the diesel apppeared in the top of each injector, and it stayed there like a cup full to the brim. , no spitting or overflowing from any injector, new or old.
I then decided swap the remaining old injector with the other old one that had taken out the previous day, assuming one would be worse than the other. I did the leak test again and the other old one filled ever so slightly, i pressumed this was because it was empty or more empty in the first place. Anyway tightening everything up and went for a run, the auto diagnostics light came on unsuprisingly but it did seem a touch better, still bit rough at low revs but between 2-3k the rattle was almost gone! but not quite!!
Done a good 150 miles since and must say it is better and also between 2-3k it goes quieter on full throttle rather than say half throttle.
There is obviously still something a miss cuz still can make it tick in most places. I am wondering if the exhaust has a leak on the gasket or something like that, making it sound noisey , but ofcourse i still have 1 old injector and unless that is changed for a new one can not be sure about anything.
Having had another look at those copper washers they appear to have flat side and a slighty curved side with a raised circular area near the central hole. I assumed that it is curved side 1st onto the injector nozzle with the flat side down - not sure if that is right. It looks like the raised circular bit fits into the recess at the top of the shiny metal part of the injector nozzle.
Then went on to crank the engine giving it a good 6 turns or so.
All that happened was the diesel apppeared in the top of each injector, and it stayed there like a cup full to the brim. , no spitting or overflowing from any injector, new or old.
I then decided swap the remaining old injector with the other old one that had taken out the previous day, assuming one would be worse than the other. I did the leak test again and the other old one filled ever so slightly, i pressumed this was because it was empty or more empty in the first place. Anyway tightening everything up and went for a run, the auto diagnostics light came on unsuprisingly but it did seem a touch better, still bit rough at low revs but between 2-3k the rattle was almost gone! but not quite!!
Done a good 150 miles since and must say it is better and also between 2-3k it goes quieter on full throttle rather than say half throttle.
There is obviously still something a miss cuz still can make it tick in most places. I am wondering if the exhaust has a leak on the gasket or something like that, making it sound noisey , but ofcourse i still have 1 old injector and unless that is changed for a new one can not be sure about anything.
Having had another look at those copper washers they appear to have flat side and a slighty curved side with a raised circular area near the central hole. I assumed that it is curved side 1st onto the injector nozzle with the flat side down - not sure if that is right. It looks like the raised circular bit fits into the recess at the top of the shiny metal part of the injector nozzle.