Gearbox whine.

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maddave

Gearbox whine.

Post by maddave » 05 Mar 2006, 15:13

Thanks for the replies. Well I had another look today whilst the weather was good and I could see alot more. However, I couldn't source the err.. source of the leak!! The drive shaft seals are covered in as much oil as everything else and look intact. I cleaned them up and no oil seems to drip from them. I cant see any hole or any area in particular where the oil could be coming from. I mean, if it was a seal I would expect the oil to be all up the back and towards the rearwards of the car. There is oil up the front of the gearbox, up near the clutch inspection panel, and the driveshafts which I would expect to have been covered if the seals went are relatively dry compared to everywhere else.

I tried to get the filler nut off to fill with some oil to see if I can source a leak but its rusted solid and I just couldn't get it off. Not really sure what to do but dont really want to spend too much time on it depiste the car being excellent in all other respects. The piece of alloy which was found in the lip of the square hole worries me as to thinking something more than a seal has blown as well as the oil coverage being irregular for that diagnosis. I think im gonna just get a new motor and whack it on ebay for someone to get a bargain.

Cheers for the replies.

pugxpert
Posts: 281
Joined: 05 Dec 2005, 22:16

Gearbox whine.

Post by pugxpert » 05 Mar 2006, 20:21

fill the box throughthe gearbox breather at the top,just loosen the breather 17mm and remove it get a funnel and fill with 2 liters

maddave

Gearbox whine.

Post by maddave » 06 Mar 2006, 16:43

pugxpert wrote:fill the box throughthe gearbox breather at the top,just loosen the breather 17mm and remove it get a funnel and fill with 2 liters
I didn't realise there was a breater in the top?! I had a quick look last night and couldn't see anything obvious. There was a nut about 17mm with a bolt in the top of it. Is the the breater? Will have a go at putting some oil in tonight and see where it comes out.

Cheers for all your help guys.

Peter D
Posts: 97
Joined: 22 Jan 2004, 01:38

Gearbox whine.

Post by Peter D » 06 Mar 2006, 17:10

Yeh the piece of metal is odd and how come is was in the hole. If that was off the gearbox it would have gone off with quite a bang surely you would have hear it. May be the piece of metal is from undet the steel bracked and has slid down and come to rest in the hole. Stange most of the oil is not sread around that area but closer to the driveshaft. Regards Peter

maddave

Gearbox whine.

Post by maddave » 06 Mar 2006, 17:21

I know what you mean. The piece of metal is just over an inch long so would have thought I would have heard it go bang! The funny thing is, even though Im only driving the car when I really have to, there is no loss in power, the gear changes seem better(!), a lot less sloppy and there are no major clunks, vibrations or bangy noises I would expect from a broken box. Apart from the whining that occurs in second and third gear, that is! The only thing that is different is there is a noticeable clunk when going into second. Kind of like Im lifting the clutch up really fast and the car jerks a little. Apart from that everythig is fine.

Peter D
Posts: 97
Joined: 22 Jan 2004, 01:38

Gearbox whine.

Post by Peter D » 06 Mar 2006, 17:56

It is gear box oil is it. I ask as it is possible that the crank shaft oil seal has gone and the oil runs down the inside of the clutch housing and out through a whole at the bottom. That is what the small hole may be. However I notice that the chassis in the photo has been cleaned by the oil indication the source of the oil is inline with that area. P.S. if it was engine oil it would not have stopped dripping which you implied it has. The gearbox is alloy but I assume the filler/level plug is steel thus the rust. Try heating the casting arround the bolt with boiling water. Regards Peter

maddave

Gearbox whine.

Post by maddave » 06 Mar 2006, 19:37

Its definately gear box oil, one, I can smell it, two, first thing I did when I noticed leak was check dipstick, three see below: :D

I managed to fill the gearbox up just now thanks to pugexpert and the breather on the top! How nice, a plastic bolt that wont rust! Genius! Anyway, I put 1 litre of oil in and there was no leak. The drive shaft seals where still clean as a bell from when I cleaned them on sat. I started to think maybe its fixed itself, but alas no! Whilst I was looking for a leak I stuck my fingers in that square hole and found two more bits of broken metal - see pics below. I then put the final litre of oil in and then it started dripping. Its definatley broken in the gearbox because its dripping from the join of the gearbox to the engine by the looks of things as well as dripping out of that sqaure hole. See pics for more info:

1: After 2 litres of oil, dripping down join following direction of arroa A and out of square hole B.
Image


2: After a 2 minute drive. It must be either under pressure or just be flinging the oil out as the oil is now everywhere and is dripping from everything!!!
Image

3: The bits of extra metal found in the square hole, plus a bit of plastic found at the top of the engine near the gearbox!
Image

Funny thing was, on two minute drive after filling it up with oil, the gear changes are now all sloppy and hard to find! There is no slipping of the clutch. There is no loss of power and the whining had gone, understandbly. Well I reckon its time to call it a day. Would be interested in knowing whats broke inside, but I really dont have the time to start taking it all apart. Im in the middle of trying to restore an old beetle and need a reliable daily so this one looks like its going to ebay in a few days.

pugxpert
Posts: 281
Joined: 05 Dec 2005, 22:16

Gearbox whine.

Post by pugxpert » 06 Mar 2006, 20:45

if you remove the gearbox you will find i expect that the diff has tried to exit the gearbox through the casing,has come through into the bell housing,actually thinking about it,remove the driveshafts,speedo drive housing and the bolts on back of diff and remove the diff then you will be able to see through casing into bell housing,thats one way of checking without removing box.

Peter D
Posts: 97
Joined: 22 Jan 2004, 01:38

Gearbox whine.

Post by Peter D » 06 Mar 2006, 21:14

Not looking good, as Pugexpect says the most likely is the diff casing I've seen a couple with a hole punched through them but usually the driver heard it go. Speak to a local garge and see what they would charge to change the box with a second hand one. Regards Peter

Paul Mi16
Posts: 64
Joined: 15 Nov 2005, 19:23

Gearbox whine.

Post by Paul Mi16 » 07 Mar 2006, 09:55

It is a most impressive leak despite what others might think. Like the others a second hand gearbox is the way forward. On the bright side its a free and effective form of rustproofing.

If you are thinking of getting rid then I urge you reconsider. I sold my 405 and it was replaced with a 306, which has given me more grief than the 4 405's put toghether. I should of kept it.

maddave

Gearbox whine.

Post by maddave » 07 Mar 2006, 10:29

Paul Mi16 wrote: On the bright side its a free and effective form of rustproofing.
Pfft you're not wrong!
Paul Mi16 wrote:If you are thinking of getting rid then I urge you reconsider. I sold my 405 and it was replaced with a 306, which has given me more grief than the 4 405's put toghether. I should of kept it.
Oh you dont know how much umming and arrring im going through at the minute. I love my 405 so much. Apart from this week I, its never ever let me down in the 60,000 miles Ive driven it. Ive been quoted £120 for a second hand gearbox including VAT and delivery which doesn't seem too bad. The only thing Im worried about is fitting it. I wont have any time to do it until the 25th of March and there is no gaurantee I could do it - it is a 4 spanner rating in haynes after all! :wink: I had kind of convinced myself I was going to get a MK 3 VW Golf Gti for something abit more sportier, but then I just saw a Mi16 405 with 80K, fsh go for £100 on ebay and thought "cor that is a bargain and wouldn't cost over a grand like the golf would!" I really dont know what to dooo.....

Edit: After the 13th call from a breakers - (never submit one of those online "find a part" forms! I have had to turn my phone off it hasn't stopped!!) - the best offer so far is a 70K box for £68 inc del and vat. Im now serverly tempted to go for it even if it is just for a learning experience.

Out of interest, is it a hard job? What other jobs would need doing whilst the engine and box are separated? Would it be worth doing the clutch as well? How long would this job take?

Paul Mi16
Posts: 64
Joined: 15 Nov 2005, 19:23

Gearbox whine.

Post by Paul Mi16 » 07 Mar 2006, 18:40

I'd suggest getting a couple of quotes to fit a gearbox, whilst it is apart you really should consider changing the clutch, and I would change the rear main oil seal as well. It all depends on how confident you feel about doing it yourself, but a day should be enough time but it depends on what snags you might encounter along the way.

As for the Mi16 i'd say go for it. They are a good drivers car and the engine from mine reappeared under the bonnet of my 205 GTi :D